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Originally posted by Sidd Finch
I realize that this response is not to me, but it's consistent with what you've said to and about me.
In the past two weeks, Wonk, you first accused me of treating Arabs as less than human. You backed this up with the notion that I was more critical of US killing of Iraqi civilians than I was of Lebanese or Palestinian civilians. (Yes, it didn't make sense then, either.) Today, you've accused me of being a proponent of genocide.
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I never said anything about your stance on Iraq relative to your stance on Israel. I defy you to find a single instance. Furthermore, when I suggested US occupation, you started the whole "genocide" thing.
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And this because I believe a nation that has been under persistent military attack for decades -- attacks that are directed at its civilians, and that are motivated by an express, avowed desire by the attacker to destroy that nation -- has a right to defend itself. And that, if in exercising that right, it kills civilians, that is a terrible thing but the blookd of those people is on the hands of those who intentionally and stragetically use those civilians as shields.
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You wring your hands and say "It's a shame, but what are ya gonna do? That dog won't hunt. Both sides are attacking civilians and both sides have done so since before Israel's independence in 1948. The plain and simple fact of the matter is that both sides are intracably wed to their positions and neither has shown any inclination to cave.
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When pressed for an alternative, you gyrate between suggesting that Israel, in essence, should simply take it like a man, and that the US should extend the protectorate that has functioned so superbly in Iraq to Lebanon (and presumably to Gaza and the West Bank too, and maybe also Syria and Iran since they are motivating and financing much of the hatred) and, in fact, expand the mission of that protectorate to include mass reeducation of children.
And for disagreeing with that, and recognizing the reality that when you are under attack, you have the right to respond, I am a proponent of genocide? Again, go fuck yourself.
You have essentially taken the position that Hezbollah should be immune from counterattack -- by Israel, by the US, by anyone, because no one can attack them (or build the protectorate that you propose) without civilian deaths. In other words, you propose that we reward a terrorist organization for hiding behind women and children with impunity for their endless, bloodthirsty crimes. Go ahead and kill Israeli civilians and launch rockets into villages -- you'll get away with it, so long as you base your terrorist military in a village.
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I have never taken the position that Israel should bend over and take it. you're a liar if you say otherwise.
Yes, I have suggested we extend out military presence to Israel. Personally, I woukldn't have gone in in the first place because it's such a fucking rat's nest. But we're there. And we're increasing the instability.
And Israel is engaging in overkill. Sure, there's less of a cost in Israeli lives if they conduct an air war and soften up a village before they send in the troops. But hey, it's okay because the Arabs did it first.
The situation is either intractable or it will require an outside force to impose order on all parties. You may not like the reality of it, but that's your bad trip, not mine.
I'm not suggesting that Hezbollah should be immune from attack. But it should be done in a bloody, street-to-street sweep, because that's the only way to root an entrenched enemy while minimizing civilian casualties.
And finally, I repeatr for emphasis, you were the one who threw out the Genocide card first.
I ask you this: if you are are going to say that (i) it's okay for Israel to attack Hezbollah; (ii) it's a shame that there are so many civilians in the way, but hey; (iii) they let the bad guys move in there in the first place, so it's kinda their fault; and (iv) you're going to justify that killing by pointing to the killing of Israeli civilians, then how can you claim the moral high ground on anything other than a preference for one group's body count being bigger than anothers?
The roots of this conflist in its present phase can be traced to the colonial powers' withdrawal from the Middle East without building any sort of infrastructure, physically or politically. Both Israel and the Arab nations need this infrastructure if the situation is to be resolved. Either we can build this infrastructure or not. But nothing will change without it, and they aren't even trying to build it themselves.
