Quote:
Originally posted by baltassoc
I take it from these statements the teachers who work for you gave you records of the testing results of their classes from their teaching days? Is not, how can you assert they were good teachers?
|
I am just assuming. But of course I can't know for sure until I have seen test results.
Quote:
|
Originally posted by baltassoc I happen to think there are lots of ways of identifying good teachers There are also lots of ways to define a good teacher beyond his ability to teach an immediate subject in such a way that his students can regurgitate it on a multiple choice test.
|
I disagree. Specially in K-12. It is not that hard to set up tests where preparing for the test will force you to learn to read and write and do basic math. Do you really disagree with that?
This assertion that you can't set up tests to determine if someone is learning to read and write and do basic math is pure bull. And that is the teachers sole job. Full Stop.
When it comes to just plain reading and writing every day in the world is a test. It is pretty easy to figure out someones read and writing ability and making a good test is not that hard.
Quote:
|
Originally posted by baltassoc You look at tenure and see a mechanism to keep the lazy employed. I look at tenure and see a millenium-old tradition that protects professional from the whims of stupid people.
|
There are better ways to protect teachers from the whims of stupid people than tenure. If teachers teach well and their students test well then they can use the good test scores to protect their job. Tenure is never, never, never, used in the private sector because it would make companies uncompetitive. Why would anyone set up a system that protects the incompetant.
How can anyone defend tenure?
Quote:
|
Originally posted by baltassoc (I'm suggesting you are stupid; I'm suggesting that the woman who my senior year in high school keep writing to the school board and the local paper demanding the head of my English teacher for daring to teach -- OMG -- 1984 (it has sex in it, you may recall) is stupid. Lest you think this is purely an anti-conservative bias, she also taught the KJV of Genesis in class. In a less conservative town, I could see that causing just as much a stir.)
|
Again, if the teacher gets high test scores from their students this would not be a problem. According to the rules high test scores would trump any of this B.S.
Quote:
|
Originally posted by baltassoc We are both right; tenure does both of these things. We just each find the respective aspects of tenure more important. I'm willing to accept that a few bad apples will get to stay. You're willing to accept that teachers will be subject to academic censorship by wingnuts.
|
No. There are better ways of protecting Teachers from wingnuts than tenure. That is like letting everyone in the prisons go free just so you don't jail anyone that is innocent. There are better ways to target the solution that don't have so much collateral damage.
Quote:
|
Originally posted by baltassoc I happen to think there is a middle ground. I think that lengthening the time before granting tenure to 6 or 8 years would eliminate almost all the bad apples. I'd also be in favor of expanding somewhat the professional negligence type grounds for firing teachers post tenure (and pre-tenure even more). Right now, in most jurisdictions, you have to be caught doing something illegal or just stop coming to work to get fired. I can see a system of low test scores combined with low teacher evaluations leading to dismissal.
|
Well I agree with you that tenure is a relative term. But I don't know if popular teachers are a good sign of good teachers. Maybe peer review. But I still think test scores are the way to go.
