Forums

[Spanky]

Originally posted by taxwonk
I am tired of theory and circular argument, Spanky. In theory, it was wrong for Israel to expel Arabs from Israel. Big fucking deal. It was wrong for the Baylonians, the Romans, and the Muslims to expel the Israelites from Israel.

You don't think admitting that what happened was wrong would be a giant step in the "peace negotiations", and I giant step for Israel and the United States for developing a realistic middle east policy?

Originally posted by taxwonk So what. I agree it was wrong. You keep casting for an argument so you can be a snarky self-satisfied putz by arguing in cirlces until whoever you've set your sights on gets tired and walks away. I'm not playing.

I think that is what they call in the psychological world as projecting. You just agreed it was wrong. (and people on this board claim that no one is ever persuaded to change their minds). The only snarky thing here is you showing zero class when shown the fallacy of your arguments. Instead of responding, "you have a good point there" you respond to my posts by admitting the point I was trying to make and then calling me names and going off on irrational rants because you feel bad about having to admit you were wrong.

Originally posted by taxwonk Propose a solution or let it go.

(Kind of like what we should do in Iraq? Instead of focusing on how "Bush Lied", or what mistakes were made, we should try and find the optimal solution to the problem? Realize that maybe failure is unacceptable, and we need to do whatever it takes to succeed because failure would result in such a catastrophe for our interests? But I digress)

As I have said on this board many times, the solution is either they complete the ethnic cleansing job they started and create a strategically defendable nation or throw in the towel.

In other words, expel the Arabs from the Gaza strip and the West Bank or give up. Israel, without the West Bank is just not defensible militarily. It is also not feasible to occupy a people indefinitely. People seem to see this in Iraq but don't see it in Israel.

The reason why it is important that people realize the Palestinians have been totally screwed here is that it would stop the denial that leads to absurd policies and hopes. The Palestinians are never going to agree that what happened is OK or going to accept the nation of Israel. As long as people are in denial about what happened to the Palestinians, they will keep expecting the Palestinians to see the light, and accept Israel, and become happy neighbors that will want to work with the Israelis.

There is this delusion among the Israelis that somehow the Arabs will somehow see the light that the ethnic cleansing of their land was really just and moral. This ludicrous thinking is shown in the fact that no one is even allowed to talk about a "right of return". These people don't have a moral or legal right to return to their homes? The Israelis and many Americans think that if the Palestinians just understand the subject well enough, or see the logic, and see through the propaganda they have been feed, the Palestinians will understand that the ethnic cleansing was OK? And Woodward says Bush is in Denial.

The only way to prevent Jewish Holocaust part Two is for Israel to expel the Arabs from the West Bank and Gaza, put up a huge wall around Israel, prevent border crossings and develop an effective missile defense system. Otherwise Israel is doomed.

Originally posted by taxwonk
No. It's not okay; it's just the way it is. Find a way to fix or stop harping on it.'

I only "harp" on it because you were tyring to defend what Israel did on moral grounds. And of course what you call "harp" is me pointing out the flaw in your logic. I showed the error of you reasoning, and now you agree with me. Why all the complaining?

Originally posted by taxwonk
Don't be an asshat.

Because I made you admit the truth?

Originally posted by taxwonk

I don't have your over-weening sense of self-importance. I don't announce doctrines.

I would say that your response to my post shows the opposite. The fact that you threw such a tantrum before admitting that what happened to the Palestinians was morally questionable, shows quite a lot of arrogance. It’s an over-weaning sense of self-importance, and some weird insecure sense, that prevents you from admitting when you are wrong.

Originally posted by taxwonk
My point here is very simple. We need so many troops over there that there's no room for resettlement even if that was our goal. But of course it isn't, and you know it isn't, so stop being an asshole.

What is with you and name calling? You say that I realize what you are arguing but pretend I don't. That might make some sense if you made an argument that made any sense at all. What does this mean: "We need so many troops over there that there's no room for resettlement even if that was our goal". Uh?

Originally posted by taxwonk
Again, it was wrong in Kosovo. So what. How is that helping find a solution to the Israel problem. Until you have a solution that might actually be workable and politically acceptable, you can keep jerking off intellectually. I think your argument is sophistry and your arrogance seriously unwarranted. I'm not playing anymore.

What arrogance? I am on posting on the politics board, making a point and backing it logically. If making a cogent argument is arrogant, well then you caught me. I don't get you, I make a cogent argument, you make inconsistent arguments, contradict yourself, make illogical statements like F-em and calling me an a-hole, snarky and arrogant and yet I am the one with a problem? Do you and NCS find common ground a lot?

Originally posted by taxwonk
I wasn't trying to persuade. You haven't shown me that you can be persuaded of anything by reason or logic. You don't have the equipment and I have neither the interest nor the time.

You are using reason and logic. F-em, is reason and logic? Please.