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Originally posted by Spanky
You don't think admitting that what happened was wrong would be a giant step in the "peace negotiations", and I giant step for Israel and the United States for developing a realistic middle east policy?
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No.
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I think that is what they call in the psychological world as projecting. You just agreed it was wrong. (and people on this board claim that no one is ever persuaded to change their minds). The only snarky thing here is you showing zero class when shown the fallacy of your arguments. Instead of responding, "you have a good point there" you respond to my posts by admitting the point I was trying to make and then calling me names and going off on irrational rants because you feel bad about having to admit you were wrong.
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You were no more "right" than I was. All I did was point out that any evil you can point to on one side of the conflict can be matched by an evil on the other side.
(Kind of like what we should do in Iraq? Instead of focusing on how "Bush Lied", or what mistakes were made, we should try and find the optimal solution to the problem? Realize that maybe failure is unacceptable, and we need to do whatever it takes to succeed because failure would result in such a catastrophe for our interests? But I digress)
As I have said on this board many times, the solution is either they complete the ethnic cleansing job they started and create a strategically defendable nation or throw in the towel.
In other words, expel the Arabs from the Gaza strip and the West Bank or give up. Israel, without the West Bank is just not defensible militarily. It is also not feasible to occupy a people indefinitely. People seem to see this in Iraq but don't see it in Israel.
The reason why it is important that people realize the Palestinians have been totally screwed here is that it would stop the denial that leads to absurd policies and hopes. The Palestinians are never going to agree that what happened is OK or going to accept the nation of Israel. As long as people are in denial about what happened to the Palestinians, they will keep expecting the Palestinians to see the light, and accept Israel, and become happy neighbors that will want to work with the Israelis.
There is this delusion among the Israelis that somehow the Arabs will somehow see the light that the ethnic cleansing of their land was really just and moral. This ludicrous thinking is shown in the fact that no one is even allowed to talk about a "right of return". These people don't have a moral or legal right to return to their homes? The Israelis and many Americans think that if the Palestinians just understand the subject well enough, or see the logic, and see through the propaganda they have been feed, the Palestinians will understand that the ethnic cleansing was OK? And Woodward says Bush is in Denial.
The only way to prevent Jewish Holocaust part Two is for Israel to expel the Arabs from the West Bank and Gaza, put up a huge wall around Israel, prevent border crossings and develop an effective missile defense system. Otherwise Israel is doomed.
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A lot of this makes sense. I don't think it's politically feasible, but it would make Israel more secure. On the otheer hand, there's absolutely no way the US could ever adopt this as policy.
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I only "harp" on it because you were tyring to defend what Israel did on moral grounds. And of course what you call "harp" is me pointing out the flaw in your logic. I showed the error of you reasoning, and now you agree with me. Why all the complaining?
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I wasn't trying to defend what Israel did on moral grounds. On the contrary, I don't think morality has anything to do with international relations. When I accused you of harping on this subject, I meant that you bring up this same argument once a month or so, every time you feel unloved. It's getting tiresome.
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Because I made you admit the truth?
I would say that your response to my post shows the opposite. The fact that you threw such a tantrum before admitting that what happened to the Palestinians was morally questionable, shows quite a lot of arrogance. It’s an over-weaning sense of self-importance, and some weird insecure sense, that prevents you from admitting when you are wrong.
What is with you and name calling? You say that I realize what you are arguing but pretend I don't. That might make some sense if you made an argument that made any sense at all. What does this mean: "We need so many troops over there that there's no room for resettlement even if that was our goal". Uh?
What arrogance? I am on posting on the politics board, making a point and backing it logically. If making a cogent argument is arrogant, well then you caught me. I don't get you, I make a cogent argument, you make inconsistent arguments, contradict yourself, make illogical statements like F-em and calling me an a-hole, snarky and arrogant and yet I am the one with a problem? Do you and NCS find common ground a lot?
You are using reason and logic. F-em, is reason and logic? Please.
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I'm just going to let the rest of this speak for itself.
