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[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
No, Taxwonk didn't say that at all.

He said that torture would make us "less decent." Period, Full Stop. I read that as Adder did -- that a policy permitting torture would make us less decent than we are now or should be.

That is entirely consistent with Taxwonk's argument that torture is immoral under all circumstances, and thus should not be state policy, although in some very rare circumstances that immoral act may be justified or necessary.

[This has the benefit of being a brief, clear distillation of many lengthy posts. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.)

I think this kind of misreading has fueled much of the argument between the two of you.

S_A_M

P.S. The position I enunciated as Taxwonk's above is basically my own position too.

That is why I want to prevent the adoption of torture as official policy and/or the widespread practice of torture by US officials, even though I'd expect that you can sometimes obtain useful or important information that way.

Going beyond the basic immorality of torturing even the guilty, the risk of false positives (i.e. torturing innocents) is far too great, I think. While the consequences are not usually as final as those from executing the innocent (the basis for my opposition to the death penalty), I think the effects are lifelong, and can't be fixed or properly compensated.

Thank you. I was beginning to think that I was suddenly speaking in tongues.