Quote:
Originally posted by Spanky
You have this all wrong. Your defense of the Teachers Unions is based on ideological bias. I have seen lots of hearings on social promotion, and I still can't believe anyone ever thought it was a good idea. I am perfectly willing to criticize my own party, or some standard conservative sentiments when they are wrong (like no birth control) but this is one area where liberals and the Teachers Unions have really screwed up.
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Listen, dipshit -- I wasn't defending the Teachers Unions. I was pointing out that "social promotion" was not some half-wit idea that someone pulled from their ass -- or some product of the liberal cabal thinking of ways to exploit government largesse. I was pointing out that your knee-jerk response -- "hold kids back!" -- also has unintended, negative consequences. That is especially true when there is no funding (yes, funding -- sometimes money is needed) to provide tutoring, extended school hours, home visits, or the other things that problem kids need to succeed.
If a kid doesn't learn Algebra I -- or basic reading -- this year, what makes you think he'll learn it next year, in the same class, with the same teaching? Do you think that it's easy when a kid is 2-3 years older than his classmates -- easy for him, for his classmates, or for his teachers? Ever seen a 10-year old in a class designed for 8-year olds? Do you think ensuring that the "dumb kid" is going to be the biggest, most alienated, most insecure, most embarassed kid does not engender any difficulties, that put strain on the system?
Once again, the full extent of your thinking is "social promotion, bad and stupid (i.e., "liberal"), retention, good." I'm pointing out that it isn't that simple -- and the experience of school districts that eliminated all social promotion, and then brought it back because the problems with retention were worse, bears me out. When a kid fails, that's a difficult problem without a simple solution.
But you can't see past your ideology. The teachers unions are all evil. They support social promotion (probably because they don't have the resources or ability to deal with the kid who keeps getting left back). Therefore, social promotion is all bad. The world is black and white. There are no consequences to eliminating it. And the real-world experience of those who've done exactly this, well, that's irrelevant because they weren't as smart as Republicans.
And thus, we have the thought process of the neocon.
