Politics: J'accuse!

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Your case is stong enough, don't weaken it by hyperbole.

Dude, this ain't Meet The Press.

The charges of corruption and self-interest clearly don't apply to all of the anti-war countries and institutions. I'd bet that (to name a few that come to mind) the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church, South Africa (and Mandela/Tutu), Mexico, and Amnesty International come out of this scandal reasonably unscathed.

I probably shouldn't imply "all", just the principal examples of France, Germany, Russia, et al. You know, the ones who made a difference in the debate. Had they not made the stand they made, I doubt anyone would be counting SA, Mexico, or the pope. As to AI, there was really no unscathed surface to worry about.

Nor would Kerry give the UN a veto over anything he actually wanted to do as President. You don't think he'd flip on that in a second?

No, I really don't. He hasn't really flipped in his basic convictions, just in how he describes them around election times. I think his love for the UN, and his affinity for World Government, are long-lasting convictions, and I think he would like to see us asking them for approval at every turn.

[dtb]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I'm the Jessica Fletcher of IRL. Be warned.

Who's Jessica Fletcher?

[Beauty]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
which were the ones voting at the UN (or pushing for the votes)?

Beats me. Unless you're Immanuel Kant,* does it matter?

* And he's dead.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Your case is stong enough, don't weaken it by hyperbole.

Well said. Reading Bilmore's posts I was ready to express my complete agreement with him, which I like to do in those rare instances where it occurs. But then he needs to go out Kerry-bashing. So then I tried to find the part of Kerry's platform where he says the UN should be able to veto any US action, but then the Mad Hatter invited me to a party and the mushrooms just took over my day.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Not Me
Now is not the time for this partisan bullshit when our country is at war. If the 9/11 Commission was really about gathering information, it would have been held after the elections and Gorelick would be testifying under oath, not in private with her buddies on the Commission.

Remind me, when is the public testimony of Bush and Cheney scheduled for?

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Beauty
If we didn't have such a crappy press . . .

Yeah, I read your NYT editorial, too.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Beauty
As fun as it is to boil the views of entire countries down to simple caricatures, in the same way that different Americans feel differently about the war, we might also allow the possibility that while there are the corrupt French, there are also principled, non-corrupt French.

To quote SAM, your case is stong enough, don't weaken it by hyperbole.

Change "French" to "Russians" or "Germans", and you're all good.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Not Me
No, don't engage in partisan mud-slinging about who is to blame for 9/11 while we are at war.

Does that apply to blaming Clinton? Gorelick? Democrats? Just checking.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Remind me, when is the public testimony of Bush and Cheney scheduled for?

About the same time as Clinton Gore will be testifying in public before the commission.

The public testimony has been nothing but a partisan show. Keep it all in private for all I care. Just pick people for the Commission who aren't key players in the failures that lead to 9/11.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Beauty
As fun as it is to boil the views of entire countries down to simple caricatures, in the same way that different Americans feel differently about the war, we might also allow the possibility that while there are the corrupt French, there are also principled, non-corrupt French.

When they allow the votes of individual citizens to be counted in the UN process, call me.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Why was it "minority groups" defending Kerrey? This is trumped up to me.

Who cares about Kerry? Why is it only "minority groups" insisting he apologize?

As newly appointed chairman of the organization "White Chicks Who Don't Tolerate Bullshit," I demand that Pete apologize for making such a stupid-ass remark.

BR(though, as I recall, CO has a very, very strong split between the Libertarian (pioneer "we don't give a shit who you are or what you do so long as you pull your weight" types) and Jesus-Freak (Focus on the Family, Promise Keepers, umpteen embarrasing CU Boulder football coaches) wings of the Republican party, and the Coors family is usually on the Jesus-Freak side of the divide, so to the extent this weakens them I am perfectly happy to see Pete go hang)C

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Does that apply to blaming Clinton? Gorelick? Democrats? Just checking.

Hello. Who the fuck wanted to have the 9/11 commission before the elections? Was it the Reps?

The Dems pushed for this commission before the elections for a reason. Too bad for them it is back-firing on them. Too bad for all of us that it is nothing but a partisan joke.

[Beauty]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
To quote SAM, your case is stong enough, don't weaken it by hyperbole.

Change "French" to "Russians" or "Germans", and you're all good.

Hey, it's not like I would go to France or anything.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Well said. Reading Bilmore's posts I was ready to express my complete agreement with him, which I like to do in those rare instances where it occurs. But then he needs to go out Kerry-bashing. So then I tried to find the part of Kerry's platform where he says the UN should be able to veto any US action, but then the Mad Hatter invited me to a party and the mushrooms just took over my day.

I don't remember the date of the quote, but he's stated that he will go, hat in hand, back to the UN on the day he is elected and "re-join the international community".

Far as I can tell, the only thing Bush has done to warrant Kerry's characterization that we have left that community is that Bush would not allow the UN to veto our national decisions.

It amazes me that you can create leaping arguments like "Bush lied" out of "but we all thought that he meant something else", but you can't connect Kerry's statements unless the exact words are repeated. It's either willful, or, when the sign said "Drink Me", you did.

[Beauty]

Originally posted by Not Me
Hello. Who the fuck wanted to have the 9/11 commission before the elections? Was it the Reps?

I think Dems were pushing for this commission years ago, and the White House tried to shut it down entirely. The stonewalling only worked so long, and now they're stuck with it in an election year. Talk about back-firing.