Politics: J'accuse!

[Beauty]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Ok, Ty -- in terms of the question of whther terorists such as Al Qaeda care about and/or attempt to influence domestic politics in the West, including the U.S. in this protracted apocalyptic battle that they forsee, what do you think about:

(a) Al Qaeda's offer to the EU nations of a "truce" if they met certain conditions; or

Clever PR. But to my mind, more focused on consumption in the countries to be in the Caliphate. AQ is using us as a foil.

(b) the demands of the kidnappers holding three Italian security guys in Iraq that Italians protest their country's presence in Iraq on a certain day lest their captured countrymen be slain; or

(c) the kidnappings of Japanese and Korean civilians, with demands that those nations withdraw their troops by a certain deadline?

Doubtless, those kidnappers are trying to drive these countries out of Iraq, and are trying to use public opinion in those countries. I just don't see that domestic political dissent has much place in that equation.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Oh, but Sevan was pretty effective in defending against those allegations you know.

Heh. I liked this one:

"ROSETT: Well, could I suggest actually there are things I like about the United Nations. I like its coffee shop . . . ."

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
But I have seen Chinese people, ergo I believe that China exists.

And I have see Al Jizm and have heard these statements.

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Ok, Ty -- in terms of the question of whther terorists such as Al Qaeda care about and/or attempt to influence domestic politics in the West, including the U.S. in this protracted apocalyptic battle that they forsee, what do you think about:

(a) Al Qaeda's offer to the EU nations of a "truce" if they met certain conditions; or

(b) the demands of the kidnappers holding three Italian security guys in Iraq that Italians protest their country's presence in Iraq on a certain day lest their captured countrymen be slain; or

(c) the kidnappings of Japanese and Korean civilians, with demands that those nations withdraw their troops by a certain deadline?

[I believe said Italian protests were scheduled for today or tomorrow.]

What about the photo-op of the hanging bodies of the contractors from a bridge and other desecrations? Don't you think that has anything to do with our enemies thinking that they can influence the US people to put pressure on the US government to pull out of Iraq? Of course it does. And all this talk in the US by the Dems is helping them to continue to think that they can do this. And further endangers coaltion lives.

[Beauty]

Originally posted by Not Me
And further endangers coaltion lives.

The abstract goal of bringing democracy to Iraq apparently is worth much more to you than is actually practicing democracy in the United States.

[Not Me]

http://www.mercurynews.com/

• AMHERST, Mass. - A University of Massachusetts graduate student who wrote a campus newspaper column saying former NFL player Pat Tillman was not a hero for being killed while fighting in Afghanistan was sharply criticized Thursday by the school's president.
  
  UMass president Jack Wilson issued a statement saying Rene Gonzalez's comments in The Daily Collegian "are a disgusting, arrogant and intellectually immature attack on a human being who died in service to his country."
  
  In his column, which ran Wednesday on the opinion page and was posted on the newspaper's Web site, Gonzalez called the former Arizona Cardinals safety a "G.I. Joe guy who got what was coming to him."
  
  "That was not heroism," Gonzalez wrote. "It was prophetic idiocy."
  
  His column also criticizes America's military response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
  
  Tillman, the San Jose, Calif., native who gave up his NFL career to join the Army Rangers in 2002, was killed in combat April 22 in Afghanistan.
  
  While recognizing Gonzalez's right to free speech, Wilson said the student owes Tillman a "debt of gratitude," and said he should apologize to Tillman's friends and family.
  
  Gonzalez did not respond to telephone and e-mail messages left Thursday by The Associated Press.
  
  ---__
  
  On the Net: www.dailycollegian.com/

[Diane_Keaton]

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Beauty
The abstract goal of bringing democracy to Iraq apparently is worth much more to you than is actually practicing democracy in the United States.

Am I the government? Is me telling you to shut-up because you are endangering our troops a violation of the First Amendment? Or is it me exercising my First Amendment rights?

[Beauty]

Originally posted by Not Me
Am I the government? Is me telling you to shut-up because you are endangering our troops a violation of the First Amendment? Or is it me exercising my First Amendment rights?

No, no and yes, but the latter is a silly euphemism for "spewing drivel." None of this has anything to do with what I said.

[Not Me]

http://www.ryano.net/iraq/?142479

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
BTW -- Bilmore, Ty is correct that you've never said whether or not you agree with Rep. Johnson, et al., or whether you thought that their statements were appropriate.

I haven't seen them. Did he say something like "that's unpatriotic", or treasonous, or something related? I would say that that's placing way too much of a moral judgment on the situation, and I would speak instead of the "strategically stupid".

To me, it's the same tension that we see between national security, and civil liberties. We want safe flights, without intrusion. Can't happen, so we have to settle on a compromise of both. Kennedy said stupid things, strategically. I think that we should all describe him, publicly, as fat and stupid for doing so. But, unpatriotic? No. He is serving his vision of patriotism, being patriotic to the values that he thinks the country should embody. But he's still wrong, and stupid. Just not unpatriotic.

Of course, If Johnson said something unrelated to what I'm talking about here, well, I've wasted more time.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Beauty
None of this has anything to do with what I said.

Then what did you mean? How am I squelching democracy or whatever it was you accused me of.

[Beauty]

Originally posted by Not Me
Then what did you mean? How am I squelching democracy or whatever it was you accused me of.

I said you care more about the notion of introducing democracy in Iraq than you do about the practice of it in our country. You were complaining that people speaking their minds in this country would endanger coalition soldiers. Aren't we endangering coalition soldiers so that Iraqis can speak their minds?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
[IMG][Peter Thottam Sucks][/IMG]

Hilarious. How do you find this stuff?


eta: I am sooo gullible.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Beauty
I said you care more about the notion of introducing democracy in Iraq than you do about the practice of it in our country. You were complaining that people speaking their minds in this country would endanger coalition soldiers. Aren't we endangering coalition soldiers so that Iraqis can speak their minds?

Bringing democracy to Iraq is the means to an end. It is my belief that the introduction of democracy in Iraq will protect America from terrorism. I would not be being honest if I said I only care about America, because that is not true. But the primary goal of regime change in Iraq is to protect America. The benefit to the Iraqis, although a good thing, is secondary.

[Beauty]

Originally posted by Not Me
Bringing democracy to Iraq is the means to an end. It is my belief that the introduction of democracy in Iraq will protect America from terrorism. I would not be being honest if I said I only care about America, because that is not true. But the primary goal of regime change in Iraq is to protect America. The benefit to the Iraqis, although a good thing, is secondary.

Usually conservatives pretend to like democracy as an end in itself. Your candor is refreshing.