Politics: J'accuse!

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
If you don't post on the 1st, i.e. your last post is midnight on the 30th, that is one day of not posting. The 2nd is two days of not posting, etc. By extension, not posting on the 6th means six days of not posting. To achieve seven days of not posting, you have to refrain from posting on the 7th.

Math is hard.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
If these pictures would have circulated a day after 9/11 they would have been cheered in America (yes, I know Ty, no connection between Iraq and 9/11 - whatever). Have we all forgotten that quickly? I initially was horified, but the more and more I think of it, the more and more I say fuck it, war is hell (at least with regards to the foreign fighters).

There is no "whatever" here.

Moreover, as your pasing reference indicates, you may be aware that many of the folks in Abu Ghraib prison (and thus, presumably at least some of the abused) had no real connection to the war effort against the U.S. MG Taguba's report estimated that number at 60% of the prison population at Abu Ghraib.

In a WaPo article today regarding the internal back-and-forth about Rumsfeld in the administration, the article noted that "some administration officials" were saying that Paul Bremer had been telling the Pentagon as far back as last fall that the military was holding too many people for too long under very bad conditions, but that he had received "resistsance" from Rumsfeld over any change in the way things were done.

Your reaction -- as expressed in this post is unthinking and mindless. It does no credit to you, to the causes you support, or to this country. Fuck them? No, sir, fuck you.

S_A_M

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
The only reason the Republican newspaper thrives in this town is b/c the the Sun Times is a sensationalist rag. All it has to offer are Roger Ebert and a decent sport's section. Considering how much of a democratic stronghold this city is, it is somewhat surprising that the Trib is so successful.

I read the Trib every day, and its slant is pretty obvious. Still, it doesn't seem to promote an agenda with its bias (if that's possible). Pretty good paper, FWIW.

A pretty high percentage of Democratic voters in Chicago Are actually dead. Thus, voting % doesn't necessially tie directly to newspaper choice %.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Not Flinty
Can anyone figure out why we were using private contractors to interrogate prisoners? I understand out-sourcing things like logistical functions, or mowing the grass, etc., but interrogating prisoners would seem like one of the core functions that you'd want the military to do.

I believe that the private contractors involved in interrogations were CIA contractors. From what I have read, they were former CIA intelligence officers who were experienced in these matters. They left the CIA for the private sector after being trained and gaining experience.

I guess, the CIA doesn't have enough trained interrogators who are willing to stay in the government jobs so they have to hire them as contractors after they train them and then they go into the private sector.

There also are linguists or translators that are private contractors.

[Not Flinty]

Originally posted by Not Me
I believe that the private contractors involved in interrogations were CIA contractors. From what I have read, they were former CIA intelligence officers who were experienced in these matters. They left the CIA for the private sector after being trained and gaining experience.

I guess, the CIA doesn't have enough trained interrogators who are willing to stay in the government jobs so they have to hire them as contractors after they train them and then they go into the private sector.

There also are linguists or translators that are private contractors.

Lizard's point about languages is a good one, but I'm still not understanding who interrogators in the private sector could work for other than the government. Maybe you or fringey can explain this to me. Other governments? State governments? Personnel departments at Fortune 500 companies? Insurance coverage depositions?

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Not Flinty
Lizard's point about languages is a good one, but I'm still not understanding who interrogators in the private sector could work for other than the government. Maybe you or fringey can explain this to me. Other governments? State governments? Personnel departments at Fortune 500 companies? Insurance coverage depositions?

I was being sarcastic. Or ironic. Or mocking. Or cynical. Or something like that.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I think it's a language issue.

At least that's what this article suggests.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2555342

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
A pretty high percentage of Democratic voters in Chicago Are actually dead. Thus, voting % doesn't necessially tie directly to newspaper choice %.

Shut up or I'll bulldoze your fancy airport overnight!

[Not Flinty]

CACI is still hiring interrogators. Note the reference to "minimal supervision." Ick.

• Description:
  Assists the interrogation support program team lead to increase the effectiveness of dealing with Detainees, Persons of Interest, and Prisoners of War (POWs) that are in the custody of US/Coalition Forces in the CJTF 7 AOR, in terms of screening, interrogation, and debriefing of persons of intelligence value. Under minimal supervision, will assist the team lead in managing a multifaceted interrogation support cell consisting of database entry/intelligence research clerks, screeners, tactical/strategic interrogators, and intelligence analyst.
  
  Required:
  Position requires a bachelor's degree or equivalent and five to seven years of related experience, preferably in intelligence field. Requires a Top Secret Clearance. Strong writing and briefing skills, with competency in automation, research and basic software applications. Familiar with intelligence collection capabilities/planning, as well as analytical procedures.
  
  Desired:
  Minimum of 5 years in intelligence field. Requires a Bachelor's degree or equivalent. Requires a Top Secret Clearance. Strong writing and briefing skills, with competency in automation, research and basic software applications. Familiar with intelligence collection capabilities/planning, as well as analytical procedures.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by bilmore
But it's okay if it's an election strategy. It'd be worth ANYTHING to get that horrid Bush out of there and put our man Kerry in. ANYTHING.

No one's saying we're a bad country. Aside from the lunatic fringe, we're maybe saying at most that a head or two should roll, or that Rumsfeld is a bad SecDef who was ultimately responsible for a poorly planned and executed, understaffed and undertrained, and abusive post-war prison system.

The left lunatics are counter-balanced by Mr. Limbaugh's comparison of this to a "fraternity prank", or by the Club-like response of some.

I guess you're right though, the Democrats should say not a critical word about the Administration on this issue, because our adversaries read the U.S. papers, and will draw heart from it.

With it all going so darn well, and indeed just as the adminitration predicted it would -- "long, hard, slog" remember -- there is no legitimate basis for critical comment. I think Rumsfeld should be the GOP candidate in 2008.

The new polls must make you unhappy.

S_A_M

[Not Flinty]

Partisans should be ignored. Partisans adopt legitimate criticisms of the government. Therefore, legitimate criticism is partisan, and should be ignored.

Repeat as necessary.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by bilmore
The pure, unadulterated horror I've seen expressed here and elsewhere over this is a laugh. Worse things happen every day in our prisons - hell, these were done mostly by people who were prison guards in civilian life, so you know where the root of the problem lies - but does that matter to you? Nope - this is merely a tool in the election campaign. It's an expression of moral vacuousness to only cry "evil" when it serves your own purposes. The greatest joke of all is watching people decry what this does to our image when you know that the only reaction they have to that image being hurt is glee.

Asshole.

Some of these (milder) abuses happen in civilian prisons. Do you think that Abu Ghraib is SOP for military prisons? If so, you're wrong. The MPs trained and assigned to man military prisons are much more careful than many civilians to follow the rules and do their duty right. They are soldiers, after all, and they don't have a union to protect them from management.

S_A_M

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Not Flinty
Lizard's point about languages is a good one, but I'm still not understanding who interrogators in the private sector could work for other than the government. Maybe you or fringey can explain this to me. Other governments? State governments? Personnel departments at Fortune 500 companies? Insurance coverage depositions?

I think if the ability to contract with the CIA wasn't available, they would leave for non-interrogator positions at defense contractors, lobbying groups, etc. The run of the mill revolving door type jobs.

I don't think that stopping the contracting opportunities would keep them at the CIA. Good people don't stay in government jobs for too long. That is a fact. The good ones leave.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Not Flinty
Lizard's point about languages is a good one, but I'm still not understanding who interrogators in the private sector could work for other than the government. Maybe you or fringey can explain this to me. Other governments? State governments? Personnel departments at Fortune 500 companies? Insurance coverage depositions?

They probably work for our government and others. the companies involved are principally defense contractors. The joke is that the peoplel involved make more as an independent contractor working for the govt than they would on the military or GS payscale doing the same thing. The "outside consultant" thing is a standard Dilbert joke that is played out in our government daily.

S_A_M

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
The joke is that the peoplel involved make more as an independent contractor working for the govt than they would on the military or GS payscale doing the same thing.

Yes, but they don't get to keep their jobs doing this once the war is over. It's a temporary need being filled by outside contractors. Haven't you ever hired temp attorneys to review boxes? Same idea, no?