Politics: J'accuse!

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Me
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E1702,00.html

KISS bassist offends Muslims

• "Extremism believes that it's okay to strap bombs on to your children and send them to paradise and whatever else and to behead people," he said yesterday.
  
  The Israeli-born US musician went on to say Islam was a "vile culture" that treated women worse than dogs.
  
  Muslim women had to walk behind their men and were not allowed to be educated or own houses, he said.
  
  "Your dog, however, can walk side by side, your dog is allowed to have its own dog house... you can send your dog to school to learn tricks, sit, beg, do all that stuff – none of the women have that advantage."
  
  He went on to say the west was under threat.
  
  "This is a vile culture and if you think for a second that it's going to just live in the sands of God's armpit you've got another thing coming," he said.
  
  "They want to come and live right where you live and they think that you're evil."
  
  Simmons said the United Nations approach did not work and the west had to "speak softly and carry a big stick".

Failing to distinguish between Islam and fundamentalist Islam is a good way of displaying your ignorance, or Gene Simmons'.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
1. He suggests that what happened at Al Ghraib was the work of a few misguided soldiers, when it's become apparent that many more senior officers and officials are responsible.

Huh? Who? Where are you getting your information?

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
and I could see the beheading of Nick Berg if I wanted to.

In the US media? I don't think he was talking about Arab media.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Me
Huh? Who? Where are you getting your information?

I pay a company in these parts to print news and advertising on wide pieces of paper, to fold the paper up so it can be handled more conveniently, and to throw the paper into the bushes next to my driveway early every morning. Also, I have a box -- like a toaster, but with pictures -- that I use to watch and listen to signals supplied to me through a cable in my wall.

eta: For more on what they're saying recently, see this. E.g.,:

• Read together, the magazine articles spell out an elaborate, all-inclusive chain of command in this scandal. Bush knew about it. Rumsfeld ordered it. His undersecretary of defense for intelligence, Steven Cambone, administered it. Cambone's deputy, Lt. Gen. William Boykin, instructed Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who had been executing the program involving al-Qaida suspects at Guantanamo, to go do the same at Abu Ghraib. Miller told Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, who was in charge of the 800th Military Brigade, that the prison would now be dedicated to gathering intelligence. Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense for policy, also seems to have had a hand in this sequence, as did William Haynes, the Pentagon's general counsel. Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, learned about the improper interrogations—from the International Committee of the Red Cross, if not from anyone else—but said or did nothing about it for two months, until it was clear that photographs were coming out. Meanwhile, those involved in the interrogations included officers from military intelligence, the CIA, and private contractors, as well as the mysterious figures from the Pentagon's secret operation.
  
  That's a lot more people than the seven low-grade soldiers and reservists currently facing courts-martial.

In the US media? I don't think he was talking about Arab media.

It's true that the mainstream media didn't show the Berg beheading. That hardly proves his point, though.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Failing to distinguish between Islam and fundamentalist Islam is a good way of displaying your ignorance, or Gene Simmons'.

True, but all islamic sects relegate women to an inferior status. It is only a matter of degree.

Lest you think I am picking on islam, catholicism, by refusing to allow women to be spiritual leaders, is guilty of this, too. Same is true of some sects of judaism.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by bilmore
Nice speech by Bill Bennett.

http://nationalreview.com/comment/be...0405190901.asp

I don't necessarily agree with everything he said, but he scored major points by calling Lynndie England the "cultural descendant of Tonya Harding."

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I pay a company in these parts to print news and advertising on wide pieces of paper, to fold the paper up so it can be handled more conveniently, and to throw the paper into the bushes next to my driveway early every morning. Also, I have a box -- like a toaster, but with pictures -- that I use to watch and listen to signals supplied to me through a cable in my wall.

Who are these senior officials?

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It's true that the mainstream media didn't show the Berg beheading. That hardly proves his point, though.

I think that was his point. The US media, or maybe western media, is what he was referring to. The US/western media slants its coverage was his point. It goes without saying that the Arab media does.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
So many of what he says is misguided, but I'll stick to two points.

• Civilized society must give public affirmation to principles and standards, categorical norms, notions of right and wrong. Even though public figures often fall short of these standards -- and we know and we expect some will -- it is nevertheless crucial that we pay tribute to them.

Evidently these principles only apply when Democrats are in office. His outrage didn't die, but he's shifted his target.

If you can go to bed at night reconciling what happened behind closed doors to prisoners by these low-level schmoes with "civilized society" and "public figures", godspeed I say

2. Bennett also suggests that the media is slow to show pictures that support war. But I saw pictures of people jumping from the World Trade Center, and of bodies hanging from the bridge in Fallujah, and I could see the beheading of Nick Berg if I wanted to.

I believe "if I wanted to" is the point. Deliberately typing on google for "Nick Berg" and logging onto Yahoo and being slammed with a big picture of Batman staring you in the face are 2 wholly separate things.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I don't necessarily agree with everything he said, but he scored major points by calling Lynndie England the "cultural descendant of Tonya Harding."

Tonya Harding has more class than Lynndie England.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Me
Who are these senior officials?

I edited the post above.

I think that was his point. The US media, or maybe western media, is what he was referring to. The US/western media slants its coverage was his point. It goes without saying that the Arab media does.

I understand his point. I think he's wrong. As a whole, the coverage has been slanted towards the war and the administration, not least because it's a lot easier and safer for correspondents to hang with the military and official sources than it is for them to do independent reporting. And the fact that NBC did not show Berg getting beheaded is neither here nor there. You and I both felt ill from reading the stories and seeing the still image.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
If you can go to bed at night reconciling what happened behind closed doors to prisoners by these low-level schmoes with "civilized society" and "public figures", godspeed I say

If you want to ignore the involvement of senior officials, you go right on doing that. The notion that all of this was the work of a handful of "low-level schmoes" is laughable, but I understand that you've got your work cut out for you as a GOP apologist.

I believe "if I wanted to" is the point. Deliberately typing on google for "Nick Berg" and logging onto Yahoo and being slammed with a big picture of Batman staring you in the face are 2 wholly separate things.

True.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
logging onto Yahoo and being slammed with a big picture of Batman staring you in the face

The constant barage of these pictures is back-firing on the media. The pictures have lost their effect. When I first saw them, I became angry at the people who took the pictures (in large part because they took pictures, not for the acts themselves as much). I now giggle at the pictures and late night talk show hosts are making jokes about them.

Many people are just tuning it out and no longer care about the issue and are once again disappointed and disgusted with the media.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
1. He suggests that what happened at Al Ghraib was the work of a few misguided soldiers, when it's become apparent that many more senior officers and officials are responsible.

Based upon a memo re. Geneva convention? Or is there more? That senior people wondered whether we could torture prisioners is not the same as saying they were involved in this stuff. is it?

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
As a whole, the coverage has been slanted towards the war and the administration . . .

Yes. That's why returning soldiers, blogging soldiers, visitors to Iraq, blogging Iraqis, and the like are all saying "what war are they talking about? It's WAY worse than what we're reading!"

If you were merely being sarcastic, and I missed it, I'm sorry. If you weren't, you should be.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Not Me
The constant barage of these pictures is back-firing on the media.

All strategies require periodic course-corrections. Unfortunately for them, the Media Cabal Poker Game/AA meeting/American Domination Planning Session isn't until Friday. SS, can you get to work on that? Maybe an email is in order.

The pictures have lost their effect. When I first saw them, I became angry at the people who took the pictures (in large part because they took pictures, not for the acts themselves as much). I now giggle at the pictures...

Yeah. You've mentioned that several times now.

...and late night talk show hosts are making jokes about them.

I haven't seen that. What do they say?

Humor, of course, is thereapeutic, and eventually works its way into all human experiences. I remember some SNL skits that played on the anger, frustration and fear that people felt after 9.11.

You're using the reference as though Letterman posts one of the photos, calls a prisoner "Batman," and the audience guffaws. T'would be nice for you were it so, in no small part because it legitimizes that little giggle you feel when seeing, say, the prisoner being threatened by the dogs. But is that really what Jay and David are saying in their monologues these days?

Many people are just tuning it out and no longer care about the issue and are once again disappointed and disgusted with the media.

Don't worry. Soon "Fear Factor: the Mole Returns" will make its way back into the regular programming schedule, and the beast will be sated.

Gattigap

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Failing to distinguish between Islam and fundamentalist Islam is a good way of displaying your ignorance, or Gene Simmons'.

On a totally different subject, did you catch 60 Minutes a little bit ago? Some imams in England clarified that it's okay to beat your wife if you avoid the eyes and mouth. It's nice to have that cleared up.