Politics: J'accuse!

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Iraq is spinning out of control and your first thought is to the political consequences? You must make much more money than me for the tax cut to mean so much to you.

No assmollusk, that wasn't my first thought as evidenced by all my posts on the deaths in Iraq and what to do about it. I don't know what to do about it and am genuinely sickened by it. My hope is that the current administration and the military do know what to do about. I think if they don't, there is going to be hell to pay. 45 US soldiers dead in one week won't cut it with the US public.

You are a real moron if you have read what I have written and think tax cuts have anything to do with my feelings about this.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Not Me
I don't think the problem is with my reading comprehension. I have recently heard a few pundits (whose first language is English) comment on Kerrey's remarks about Christians in Muslim countries. Some were perplexed by it and others seemed to take away from it similar thoughts that I took away from it.

I also read that someone counted the words spoken at the hearings and Condi spoke 40% of the words and the commissioners spoke 60%. Yeah, it was information from her that they wanted.

I would wager that the percentage skews even further when witnesses assert the fifth. Word count means nothing.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Not Me
My hope is that the current administration and the military do know what to do about.

And what if the current administration doesn't know what to do? Would you support change or continue to follow blindly over the cliff?

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I would wager that the percentage skews even further when witnesses assert the fifth. Word count means nothing.

In the situation where a commission is purporting to interview the NSA, who is not claiming the 5th, for the purpose supposedly of getting information, I think word count does matter.

They accused her of filibustering. Yeah, as the word count shows, she was the one filibustering.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
My god, you're right. I'll keep that in mind next time I want to tell a judge "well, your honor, the defendant's statement that this fact is undisputed is wrong, as shown by this piece of evidence that disputes it." After all, the existence of a thing is generally proof of its non-existence, right?

Oh, lighten up. My point, which I thought was fairly understandable, was that it might be more interesting and substantive to discuss the more-valid-then-the-sweeping-all-inclusive-statement-that-was-presented idea that (and I'm only saying here what I saw as NM's theme) Dems seem to circle the wagons more than Repubs. At least that's subject to discussion. Any statement that says "always" or "never" can be picked apart on the basis that exceptions exist for everything, but at least then people would be treating her thesis instead of playing word games.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
And what if the current administration doesn't know what to do? Would you support change or continue to follow blindly over the cliff?

I would definitely listen to what John Kerry had to say about how he would do things differently and if it sounded like a better plan, it would influence my vote.

See asswipe, I care alot more about the US troops in Iraq than I do about a tax cut. I just am currently of the opinion that a Rep admin is better able to deal with Iraq. However, my mind can be changed on that if the Rep admin proves that isn't true.

On a related note, I don't think Bob Kerrey did our troops in Iraq any favors by pointing out to the world how we are a Christian army in a Muslim nation. Not that this isn't true or isn't known to the Arab world. I just don't think this was helpful and as that link I posted indicated, some in the Arab world are using his comments to support their position that the US has done something wrong by invading Iraq. No, he hasn't done our troops any favors by making that comment.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Not Me
I just am currently of the opinion that a Rep admin is better able to deal with Iraq.

As evidenced by . . . ?

Originally posted by Not Me On a related note, I don't think Bob Kerrey did our troops in Iraq any favors by pointing out to the world how we are a Christian army in a Muslim nation. Not that this isn't true or isn't known to the Arab world. I just don't think this was helpful and as that link I posted indicated, the Arab world is using his comments to support their position that the US has done something wrong by invading Iraq. No, he hasn't done our troops any favors by making that comment.

Probably less effect than W's Crusade reference. They're still quoting that.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Not Me
In the situation where a commission is purporting to interview the NSA, who is not claiming the 5th, for the purpose supposedly of getting information, I think word count does matter.

They accused her of filibustering. Yeah, as the word count shows, she was the one filibustering.

I will grant you that there was grandstanding. There is any time a politician gets sexy tv time. But all the wordcount shows is that she did a fine job of not deviating from her talking points. From the perspective of a witness, sometimes, the less said, the better.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
As evidenced by . . . ?

Kerry's vote against the money to fund the troops for one. Call me a psycho all you want but I just don't see how our troops can fight in Iraq if the Senate votes down the money to fund them.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/P...ry_040319.html

You can argue all you want about whether we should be there or not, but the fact is that now we are there. Now what? Pull out? Stay? If we stay, is it is good idea to vote down the money to fund the troops?

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Probably less effect than W's Crusade reference. They're still quoting that.

I cringed when I heard it. Again, see the difference between you and me?

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I will grant you that there was grandstanding. There is any time a politician gets sexy tv time. But all the wordcount shows is that she did a fine job of not deviating from her talking points. From the perspective of a witness, sometimes, the less said, the better.

They accused her of filibustering and from the clips that I saw, she did her best to try to speak and they did their best to prevent her from speaking.

No, the word count shows that they weren't really interested in getting information FROM her. They got that in the 4 hour non-public interview. That wasn't what yesterday's hearing was about.

Call me psycho, but I think yesterday's hearing should have been about something more honorable than what the commission allowed it to become. Like figuring out what went wrong so that never again will two people holding hands have to jump to their deaths from a skyscraper on fire to avoid being burned to death. Maybe if the commission members had kept that image in their minds they would have behaved better.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Not Me
Kerry's vote against the money to fund the troops for one. Call me a psycho all you want but I just don't see how our troops can fight in Iraq if the Senate votes down the money to fund them.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/P...ry_040319.html

Looks like it was just a disagreement on how it would be funded.

"On the Sept. 14, 2003, edition of CBS's Face the Nation, Kerry spoke at length about an amendment he and Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., were offering which would have paid for the $87 billion by delaying some of the recent tax cuts."

It also looks like the vote was symbolic.

"Kerry spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter said her boss' vote against the funding was a 'protest vote.'"

And it looks like W was willing to pull the plug on the troops entirely with a veto if he didn't get his way.

"Cutter went on to say the Bush White House had threatened to veto the entire $87 billion supplemental bill if the Kerry-Biden amendment had passed."

So how much do those tax cuts mean to you again?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Not Me
Call me psycho, but I think yesterday's hearing should have been about something more honorable than what the commission allowed it to become. Like figuring out what went wrong so that never again will two people holding hands have to jump to their deaths from a skyscraper on fire to avoid being burned to death. Maybe if the commission members had kept that image in their minds they would have behaved better.

And maybe if the Reps didn't so loathe everything they deemed to be associated with Clinton, it wouldn't have happened in the first place. Psycho.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
And maybe if the Reps didn't so loathe everything they deemed to be associated with Clinton, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Yeah, because if only the Reps had behaved better, the FBI would not have been worried about racial profiling of Arab males in flight schools and the CIA and the FBI would have communicated better. Yep. That is the Reps fault.

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Psycho.

Only time will tell whether what Kerrey has said and what this commission is doing will do more harm than good. The purpose of the commission is to do something that will benefit this country. So far, I haven't seen any evidence that is what the commission is doing.

What a psycho I am for thinking that.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Looks like it was just a disagreement on how it would be funded.

It also looks like the vote was symbolic.

Well tell that to the troops over in Iraq and see how well that explanation flies.

Unless Kerry can come up with a better excuse than that, my suggestion to him if he wants to win in Nov is to admit it was a mistake and make a 180 degree turn around on the issue of funding the troops. Even more so now that "shit is happening" in Iraq.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Not Me
Well tell that to the troops over in Iraq and see how well that explanation flies.

And see how well it flies when they learn that W values his tax cuts more than their safety.