New Fashion Board 10-3-2003 - 11-7-2003

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Indeed.

I got some boots to go with my skirt this weekend. Donald Pliner.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

deleted double post that got posted through some weird snafu.

[lookingformarket]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I got some boots to go with my skirt this weekend. Donald Pliner.

I think that this is the exact outfit the guy was wearing in the Mappelthorpe bullwhip pictures (NTTAWWT)

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
Dude, you crack me up. I was trying to explain your moniker/avatar to the Mr. over the weekend, in connection with a discussion we were having over Salic law and the significance of the Merovingians generally (don't ask).

Suffice it to say, we ended up spending the rest of the weekend looking at each other and saying "Fetch me stronger ale! And some plump succulent babies to eat!" and cracking our shit up.

Salic law is fairly interesting, though I've always felt that France's proximity to and regular alliances with the Holy See really limit its influence.

But to tie threads together, how about this piece of Salic law:

Title XIII. Concerning Rape committed by Freemen.
1. If three men carry off a free born girl, they shall be compelled to pay 30 shillings.

2. If there are more than three, each one shall pay 5 shillings.

3. Those who shall have been present with boats shall be sentenced to three shillings.

4. But those who commit rape shall be compelled to pay 2500 denars, which make 63 shillings.

5. But if they have carried off that girl from behind lock and key, or from the spinning room, they shall be sentenced to the above price and penalty.

6. But if the girl who is carried off be under the king's protection, then the "frith" (peace-money) shall be 2500 denars, which make 63 shillings.

7. But if a bondsman of the king, or a leet, should carry off a free woman, he shall be sentenced to death.

8. But if a free woman have followed a slave of her own will, she shall lose her freedom.

9. If a freeborn man shall have taken an alien bondswoman, he shall suffer similarly.

10. If any body take an alien spouse and join her to himself in matrimony, he shall be sentenced to 2500 denars, which make 63 shillings.

So why does the price go down if there are more than 3 men?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
Suffice it to say, we ended up spending the rest of the weekend looking at each other and saying "Fetch me stronger ale! And some plump succulent babies to eat!" and cracking our shit up.

Mmmmm. Plump succulent babies. Papa John's will deliver them if you give the secret code. PM me for details. I think they're running some sort of special right now where you also get free cinnamon bread sticks. Tasty!

[leagleaze]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

So why does the price go down if there are more than 3 men?

I was wondering this. I mean if you have 4 men and they have to pay 5 shillings each that is 20 shillings right? So until you get carried off by 6 men you aren't getting the same amount of money as you would get if you were carried off by 3.

That makes no sense at all.

Unless they figure a woman enjoys being carried off by 4 or 5 men, but not so much by 3, 6 or more.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by lookingformarket
I think that this is the exact outfit the guy was wearing in the Mappelthorpe bullwhip pictures (NTTAWWT)

You think? Why not just glance at your screensaver and give us a definite answer. NTTAWWT.

[notcasesensitive]

Rena Sofer and company have been cancelled --

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) -- NBC's freshman comedy "Coupling" reached the point of no return as the network officially canceled the racy sitcom Friday.

Here's a going away photo...

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by leagleaze
I was wondering this. I mean if you have 4 men and they have to pay 5 shillings each that is 20 shillings right? So until you get carried off by 6 men you aren't getting the same amount of money as you would get if you were carried off by 3.

That makes no sense at all.

Unless they figure a woman enjoys being carried off by 4 or 5 men, but not so much by 3, 6 or more.

This may be a practical issue. If 5 men are involved, they are probably carrying off more than one and you are probably happy just to get them back, so you might think of this as a volume discount. But if they wanted a volume discount they could have done it that way (If more than one girl is carried off by multiple men....) But I'm hoping BRC has some answers, as the resident Salic Law expert.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Rena Sofer and company have been cancelled --

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) -- NBC's freshman comedy "Coupling" reached the point of no return as the network officially canceled the racy sitcom Friday.

Damn. First PLF and now Coupling.....OH the humanity!!!!

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Jack Manfred
I tried searching online for the site, but I mostly got websites with pictures of dump trucks.

My son will be e-mailing you shortly. You are his new hero.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Salic law is fairly interesting, though I've always felt that France's proximity to and regular alliances with the Holy See really limit its influence.

But to tie threads together, how about this piece of Salic law:




So why does the price go down if there are more than 3 men?

Well, it's a fixed rate vs variable rate, so obviously the best value (well, okay, not value) is with 4 men. (Editted to add, scroll, then post)

The Salian Franks were interesting for trying to meld together two pretty divergent legal traditions: the common law-like laws of the northern Europeans and the civil law of Rome. I've always thought it intersting that everything has a price; almost as though there are only torts, and the torts have fixed amounts of compensation. Of course, the kicker is that if you can't pay the fine/award, you are placed in the service of your creditor, permenantly.

Trying to meld this concept with Roman civil law was definitely tricky, and not terribly successful in the long term, in the sense that for the most part the Roman concepts of law ultimately prevailed in the areas controled by the Salian Franks.

Even in England, were the concept of the common law survived, the concept of the weregeld (manprice) died out by the time the Normans took over.

And of course, the "Salic Law," that women could not succeed to a throne, undoubtedly changed the face of Europe for a millenium, as competent women were passed over for their incompetent inbred nephews and cousins, and giving rise to excuses for dozens of uprisings over the history of Europe. I've never found a reference as to whether the Salic Law was precipitated by the petty warfare between the Merovingian queens or a cause of instability when Merovingian women attempted to seize power. Thought, BRC?

[leagleaze]

Originally posted by baltassoc
All sorts of shit

What are you Atticus all of a sudden?

Good lord people. I took* a class in Roman Law and Patrimony when I was in college and guess what that was boring too.


*Please note, took does not mean actually attended.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Even in England, were the concept of the common law survived, the concept of the weregeld (manprice) died out by the time the Normans took over.

Bitch, please. It didn't die out, it morphed. Fixed weregelds didn't work for long given inflation/deflation. Also, weregelds tended to vary depending on local practice, which meant that as centralization occurred, there was a need to show flexibility for often very different weregelds. And, interaction with the bot led to a more flexible approach than shown by, say, Salic law. Thus, the old law morphs and tort law is born (and so much more!).

In places like France, centralizing influences, canon law, and the like ultimately led to an emphasis on codification that replaced the old Germanic traditions, but in England they just morphed and developed.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
But I'm hoping BRC has some answers, as the resident Salic Law expert.

Not I, but I'll ask the Mr. He brought the whole thing up noting that women of childbearing age brought significantly higher weregeld than freemen (with some caveats about concealing the premeditated murder of the king's agents or something).

I'll bet it was some sort of an "unjust enrichment" thing - if you have a huge kidnapping party, you shouldn't all get off on the cheap for 30 shillings for the whole lot of you. Similarly, one family shouldn't necessarily be made rich just because a large group carried off just one of their women. A given woman can only breed so many children, and so has inherently limited value. I do note, for the record, that in practice this all really didn't matter - if you stole someone's wife or daughter, you usually got a blood feud regardless.