Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03 - 10-3-03

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by bilmore
(And now, since neither of us would ever willingly let the other have the last word, but just out of self-preservation and a wish to actually go home, I will not post any more, allowing you the final word, so you can say whatever you want to say, free of fear that I will be arrogant to you. )

Good. Although I will be shocked if you don't reply to this post.

Originally posted by bilmore You have well and truly lost it, and it's sad, as you once struck me as passingly sane. I say "I think rap is misogynistic." You have a fit, point out examples of where I am wrong, and I am "arrogant."

Actually, you said it was misogynistic. I said, "Absolutely. But (i) you only hear 2% of what's out there, so why are you pretending to be an expert on all of it and (ii) how is different than any other form of entertainment? You responded with (i) well, I heard some on the radio and it was bad and (ii) I've never watched tv or been to a movie. If you can't see how self inflated an opinion you have of yourself from making blanket statements about things you know little to nothing about, then your nuts.

You also tried to make it a race issue because I asked you why it bothered you so much since the genre is consistent in its misogyny with other forms of music, television, print ads, movies, whatever. I am a fan of rap. This is why I wanted to know why you had such a problem with it and nothing else. You couldn't comprehend that it wasn't a racial issue with me because in your mind, all I see is race and you are convinced you are right about everything.

Originally posted by bilmore
I say, in a late-night half-joking tirade following 329 reality TV posts, that you people watch way too much TV, and list some alternative activities. For this, I am "arrogant X 2."

And this is the bullshit I'm talking about. Whenever you say something stupid, it was a joke. "I was kidding. Can't you see that? Don't be so PC. Blah, blah, blah." You're full of shit. If it was so clearly a joke, why did like 8 people feel the need to tell you that they DO in fact do other things? And ask yourself, if you got that reaction, does it matter if you were joking?

And if you can't see the arrogance in suggesting alternate activities that have your stamp of approval because it's what YOU like to do, it's YOU that has "well and truly lost it."

Originally posted by bilmore
Finally, I try a word play to which someone takes offense, I get pissed and point out that maybe offense should possibly be measured at least partially in context of the speaker's history of trying to offend, and I am "arrogant x 3".

For a smart guy, sometimes you are extraordinarily dense. I was not commenting on the substance of your joke. I recognized it as a joke. What you fail to see is that your defense of your joke is the exact same defense of my joke from the day before. You can't see it because your arguing style is to refuse to see it. When you say, "I get pissed and point out that maybe offense should possibly be measured at least partially in context of the speaker's history of trying to offend" it is substantially the same as when I say, "EO, from the context of the post, you should take the Raising Arizona joke as something that's harmless." You were fighting just as much to explain yourself to leagle as I was with EO. Yet, you CAN'T SEE that it is arrogant to suggest to ME that others didn't see my joke the way I did, so I might be wrong about it, while at the same time failing to apply your own brilliant logic to yourself twelve hours later.

Originally posted by bilmore
My best guess is, I happened to gore two of your very favorite oxen, and the threat to your self-esteem is so great that you need a way to discount everything I said without reliance on substance.

More bilmore bullshit. Your argument about rap was paper thin. And I wasn't even arguing with you about people watching too much tv. I was making a point about the fact that you think you're better than people who DO watch tv. I don't give a shit what you think about rap or tv because in both cases YOU'VE ADMITTED you know nothing about either one. Your arrogance arises when you make pronouncements about shit you know nothing about and then turn the argument around to race or political correctness or other forms of other people being sensitive to your crap. That is the overall point.

Originally posted by bilmore
No, I think that, in your three examples, I was correct.

No shit. Have you ever thought you weren't? Either way, you're still missing the point.

Originally posted by bilmore
I've apologized to many people for things on these boards, and IRL, when I've fucked up. I can't imagine that you have ever done that, which makes your point so funny to me.

That's so fucking stupid it's comical. I apologized to EO the other day on IM on the very topic that started this. I apologize all the time when I've done something wrong or stupid. And you know what else I do? I admit when I'm wrong. I can't imagine that you have ever done that.

Originally posted by bilmore
I will concede that you made me back down to "much of the rap that I have ever seen is misogynistic", but I don't recall you ever altering your point, which was, not that misogynistic rap wasn't prevelant but, that I was "arrogant".

You backed down? Okay. Maybe it's because it's hard to argue about something you have conceded you know nothing about. And altering my point? Go back to the beginning of this email to see my point on rap music, which I've only spelled out for you 50 times.

Originally posted by bilmore
I will stand by my statement that all you reality-TV-types watch too much TV, against which you never made any sustantive point except to say that I was "arrogant" for saying so.

You still don't get it. Whether or not I or Barely or anyone else on this board watches too much tv is irrelevant. My criticism of you is that your "joke" was arrogant because what you were really saying was, "you guys are pathetic because you're not more like me." You can argue 'til you're blue in the face that you were just kidding, but I'm sure most people know I'm mainly correct when I say, they were defensive about it because of that. It wasn't a throw away line, like "Damn you guys need to get out more." It was, "Look at me! I have a life and you don't!" And I'd like to note that I think it's hilarious that you would post something like that when you post on this board late at night. Shouldn't you be off enjoying your perfect life? Turn your criticism around on yourself.

Originally posted by bilmore Finally, if we can't make jokes that have any potential of offending anyone on any bad day, we're screwed, which you never addressed at all except to call me "arrogant."

What are you talking about? You're babbling old man. I have no problem with you or anyone else joking about things. Hell, I GOT your joke to leagle and AGREED with you on the substance of your argument with her. I just thought it was amazingly arrogant of you to fail to apply your stupid horn analogy to yourself in a situation that was exactly the same as mine. You don't see what I'm saying because you CAN'T. You're too busy screaming, "I'm right! I'm right!" to understand what is going on around you.

Originally posted by bilmore If sticking to an opinion in the face of unsupported disapproval from you is "arrogant", well, I'll take it, I guess.

Do you think you're surprising me when you say that you'll stick to your opinion in as arrogant a way as possible? You'll make a stupid statement. Someone will call you on it. You'll yell that they're being PC or inserting race or whatever other knee-jerk defense mechanism you're employing that day. And then you'll walk around all day knowing you were right without actually hearing what they said to you.

TM

[dtb]

but if I can't crow about a fabulous purchase here, then where in the wide, wide world of sports can I do it?

I just won a tweed riding jacket (it's cubbing season, after all...) for $9 (that's right, you read that correctly $9) on e-bay. What a STEAL!!!

I never got around to reading that NYT Magazine article (although I kept that week's magazine and am hoping to get around to it eventually), but if the point of it was you're never as happy as you think you will be with the purchase of something (was that it?), they are just wrong, wrong, wrong. However, their wrongness may only apply when you're getting a bargain -- kind of like the maxim "everything tastes better if it's free!"

[leagleaze]

Originally posted by dtb
but if I can't crow about a fabulous purchase here, then where in the wide, wide world of sports can I do it?

Crow away, it's what we live for. We all love a good deal. Well, at least I do.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Long diatribe by TM not omitted, because he deserves now to be as annoyed by this as we all are.

USE FUCKING PM ALREADY!

Since you obviously know we're all bored by this conversation, given your heading, continuing it in public serves no purpose. Throw us a bone here, and hit next for us BY USING PM

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Good. Although I will be shocked if you don't reply to this post.

Actually, you said it was misogynistic. I said, "Absolutely. But (i) you only hear 2% of what's out there, so why are you pretending to be an expert on all of it and (ii) how is different than any other form of entertainment? You responded with (i) well, I heard some on the radio and it was bad and (ii) I've never watched tv or been to a movie. If you can't see how self inflated an opinion you have of yourself from making blanket statements about things you know little to nothing about, then your nuts.

You also tried to make it a race issue because I asked you why it bothered you so much since the genre is consistent in its misogyny with other forms of music, television, print ads, movies, whatever. I am a fan of rap. This is why I wanted to know why you had such a problem with it and nothing else. You couldn't comprehend that it wasn't a racial issue with me because in your mind, all I see is race and you are convinced you are right about everything.

And this is the bullshit I'm talking about. Whenever you say something stupid, it was a joke. "I was kidding. Can't you see that? Don't be so PC. Blah, blah, blah." You're full of shit. If it was so clearly a joke, why did like 8 people feel the need to tell you that they DO in fact do other things? And ask yourself, if you got that reaction, does it matter if you were joking?

And if you can't see the arrogance in suggesting alternate activities that have your stamp of approval because it's what YOU like to do, it's YOU that has "well and truly lost it."

For a smart guy, sometimes you are extraordinarily dense. I was not commenting on the substance of your joke. I recognized it as a joke. What you fail to see is that your defense of your joke is the exact same defense of my joke from the day before. You can't see it because your arguing style is to refuse to see it. When you say, "I get pissed and point out that maybe offense should possibly be measured at least partially in context of the speaker's history of trying to offend" it is substantially the same as when I say, "EO, from the context of the post, you should take the Raising Arizona joke as something that's harmless." You were fighting just as much to explain yourself to leagle as I was with EO. Yet, you CAN'T SEE that it is arrogant to suggest to ME that others didn't see my joke the way I did, so I might be wrong about it, while at the same time failing to apply your own brilliant logic to yourself twelve hours later.

More bilmore bullshit. Your argument about rap was paper thin. And I wasn't even arguing with you about people watching too much tv. I was making a point about the fact that you think you're better than people who DO watch tv. I don't give a shit what you think about rap or tv because in both cases YOU'VE ADMITTED you know nothing about either one. Your arrogance arises when you make pronouncements about shit you know nothing about and then turn the argument around to race or political correctness or other forms of other people being sensitive to your crap. That is the overall point.

No shit. Have you ever thought you weren't? Either way, you're still missing the point.

That's so fucking stupid it's comical. I apologized to EO the other day on IM on the very topic that started this. I apologize all the time when I've done something wrong or stupid. And you know what else I do? I admit when I'm wrong. I can't imagine that you have ever done that.

You backed down? Okay. Maybe it's because it's hard to argue about something you have conceded you know nothing about. And altering my point? Go back to the beginning of this email to see my point on rap music, which I've only spelled out for you 50 times.

You still don't get it. Whether or not I or Barely or anyone else on this board watches too much tv is irrelevant. My criticism of you is that your "joke" was arrogant because what you were really saying was, "you guys are pathetic because you're not more like me." You can argue 'til you're blue in the face that you were just kidding, but I'm sure most people know I'm mainly correct when I say, they were defensive about it because of that. It wasn't a throw away line, like "Damn you guys need to get out more." It was, "Look at me! I have a life and you don't!" And I'd like to note that I think it's hilarious that you would post something like that when you post on this board late at night. Shouldn't you be off enjoying your perfect life? Turn your criticism around on yourself.

What are you talking about? You're babbling old man. I have no problem with you or anyone else joking about things. Hell, I GOT your joke to leagle and AGREED with you on the substance of your argument with her. I just thought it was amazingly arrogant of you to fail to apply your stupid horn analogy to yourself in a situation that was exactly the same as mine. You don't see what I'm saying because you CAN'T. You're too busy screaming, "I'm right! I'm right!" to understand what is going on around you.

Do you think you're surprising me when you say that you'll stick to your opinion in as arrogant a way as possible? You'll make a stupid statement. Someone will call you on it. You'll yell that they're being PC or inserting race or whatever other knee-jerk defense mechanism you're employing that day. And then you'll walk around all day knowing you were right without actually hearing what they said to you.

TM

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by dtb
I just won a tweed riding jacket (it's cubbing season, after all...) for $9 (that's right, you read that correctly $9) on e-bay. What a STEAL!!!

Sweet! Has anyone ever used e-bay for vintage hats/bags? Been happy with the clothes, etc. you've gotten? Many thanks for any advice--have never used e-bay.

[evenodds]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Long diatribe by TM not omitted, because he deserves now to be as annoyed by this as we all are.

USE FUCKING PM ALREADY!

Since you obviously know we're all bored by this conversation, given your heading, continuing it in public serves no purpose. Throw us a bone here, and hit next for us BY USING PM

Some of us enjoy the public debate. Since the most recent problems arose in part from two discussions on two days with two different people, I appreciate hearing what they have to say.

Thurgreed and I realized we were having two different conversations and resolved them through IM.

It is utterly ridiculous for any lawyer to claim to be cooler than any other lawyer. We are by nature geeky, were we not, we'd have dropped out of this life a long time ago.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Throw us a bone here...

Thanks for reminding me of this nugget, which is currently underused by me. I just can't hear it in anything other than the Dr Evil voice. Must work it into daily conversation...

In other news, Dualit, it isn't fair to wipe out your childhood indiscretions like that. Who among us, other than Winona Rider, would answer yes to shoplifting within the last 5 years?

[evenodds]

Originally posted by purse junkie
Sweet! Has anyone ever used e-bay for vintage hats/bags? Been happy with the clothes, etc. you've gotten? Many thanks for any advice--have never used e-bay.

Yes. I have bought handbags and I have been very happy with all but my first purchase (I overpaid since I knew not what I was doing). You need to be sure the seller has done a lot of transactions and that the comments have been positive. It's incredibly easy to check.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
pj-

I just remembered why I love you. And wanted to let you know how glad I am to be sharing space on paigow's ignore list with you.

I'm sure you look charming in your grandmother's hat.

Bn(not opposed to Chilean grapes either)B

When did Paigs let me off her ignore list? What do I need to do to get back on? The two of you and Chevy sounds like a fine crowd. I'll bring the tofu.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by evenodds
Some of us enjoy the public debate.

Okay. TM, when you PM bilmore, cc evenodds. Anyone else want to hear the continued debate? If so, please PM TM and/or bilmore, so they can include you on the cc list.

But the dead horse is already being eaten by dogs in Japan today. (and, by tomorrow those dogs will be being eaten in China.)

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
When did Paigs let me off her ignore list? What do I need to do to get back on? The two of you and Chevy sounds like a fine crowd. I'll bring the tofu.

I think you meant "steak," but the gesture is appreciated. I will try to think of a vegetable to bring. Popcorn counts, right?

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
But the dead horse is already being eaten by dogs in Japan today. (and, by tomorrow those dogs will be being eaten in China.)

If, by tomorrow, you are still talking about this, please skip the next obvious step in the progression of the horse. Impugning the eating habits of other countries is marginally acceptable, but scatology is right out.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Okay. TM, when you PM bilmore, cc evenodds. Anyone else want to hear the continued debate? If so, please PM TM and/or bilmore, so they can include you on the cc list.

I don't mind seeing the debate so much. I just don't want to see the passionate make-up sex that is sure to ensue.

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
But the dead horse is already being eaten by dogs in Japan today. (and, by tomorrow those dogs will be being eaten in China.)

Maybe if I fucked the dead horse, I could lower my purity score enough to catch gwnc.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
The Beckinsdale version was pretty good, actually. I, too, am anxious to see Underworld.

On the "movie is better than the book" theme, I find this an interesting question in the abstract, because, despite the entirely different art forms, I think the question "which was better" usually does have an answer and I don't have any clue why my opinions swing one way or the other. Anyhow:

The Firm: movie FAR exceeded the book. Much better ending.

Rosemary's Baby: a draw. S. King is right, they are actually totally interchangeable.

13th Warrior: Depends on which "book." Beowulf was better. Michael Crichton can't write for shit and is a preachy bastard, so I'll say 13W was better than Eaters of the Dead without having read it. But I have a soft spot for this movie because I went to it not having a clue that it was about Beowulf, and so I had a surprising blast.

Relic: The "book of the movie" was better than the movie. (The book of the movie was quite decent, a cut above the usual airport book, actually.)

Starship Troopers: Now, this is one of those interesting "how can you compare them" problems. The book was, overall, better than the movie. The movie was radically different than the book. The movie was also one of the better thematic translations of a book to screen that I have ever seen. The book was basically a philosophical and political treatise, and the movie translated the ideas pretty well.

Anyone seen Pasolini's "Gospels of Jesus"? Better than the book.

(And my purity score goes down, just like that.)

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by purse junkie
Sweet! Has anyone ever used e-bay for vintage hats/bags? Been happy with the clothes, etc. you've gotten? Many thanks for any advice--have never used e-bay.

I've bought bags that are NWT (new with tags) beofre, but never vintage. I've always been happy with what I've gotten. Recewtnly bought a Kate Spade Diaper Bag for about $40 less than in department stores...

I agree with evenodds advice...make sure the seller has loads of positive feedback, and do your due diligence.