Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03 - 10-3-03

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by bilmore
(And now, since neither of us would ever willingly let the other have the last word, but just out of self-preservation and a wish to actually go home, I will not post any more, allowing you the final word, so you can say whatever you want to say, free of fear that I will be arrogant to you. )

Good. Although I will be shocked if you don't reply to this post.

Originally posted by bilmore You have well and truly lost it, and it's sad, as you once struck me as passingly sane. I say "I think rap is misogynistic." You have a fit, point out examples of where I am wrong, and I am "arrogant."

Actually, you said it was misogynistic. I said, "Absolutely. But (i) you only hear 2% of what's out there, so why are you pretending to be an expert on all of it and (ii) how is different than any other form of entertainment? You responded with (i) well, I heard some on the radio and it was bad and (ii) I've never watched tv or been to a movie. If you can't see how self inflated an opinion you have of yourself from making blanket statements about things you know little to nothing about, then your nuts.

You also tried to make it a race issue because I asked you why it bothered you so much since the genre is consistent in its misogyny with other forms of music, television, print ads, movies, whatever. I am a fan of rap. This is why I wanted to know why you had such a problem with it and nothing else. You couldn't comprehend that it wasn't a racial issue with me because in your mind, all I see is race and you are convinced you are right about everything.

Originally posted by bilmore
I say, in a late-night half-joking tirade following 329 reality TV posts, that you people watch way too much TV, and list some alternative activities. For this, I am "arrogant X 2."

And this is the bullshit I'm talking about. Whenever you say something stupid, it was a joke. "I was kidding. Can't you see that? Don't be so PC. Blah, blah, blah." You're full of shit. If it was so clearly a joke, why did like 8 people feel the need to tell you that they DO in fact do other things? And ask yourself, if you got that reaction, does it matter if you were joking?

And if you can't see the arrogance in suggesting alternate activities that have your stamp of approval because it's what YOU like to do, it's YOU that has "well and truly lost it."

Originally posted by bilmore
Finally, I try a word play to which someone takes offense, I get pissed and point out that maybe offense should possibly be measured at least partially in context of the speaker's history of trying to offend, and I am "arrogant x 3".

For a smart guy, sometimes you are extraordinarily dense. I was not commenting on the substance of your joke. I recognized it as a joke. What you fail to see is that your defense of your joke is the exact same defense of my joke from the day before. You can't see it because your arguing style is to refuse to see it. When you say, "I get pissed and point out that maybe offense should possibly be measured at least partially in context of the speaker's history of trying to offend" it is substantially the same as when I say, "EO, from the context of the post, you should take the Raising Arizona joke as something that's harmless." You were fighting just as much to explain yourself to leagle as I was with EO. Yet, you CAN'T SEE that it is arrogant to suggest to ME that others didn't see my joke the way I did, so I might be wrong about it, while at the same time failing to apply your own brilliant logic to yourself twelve hours later.

Originally posted by bilmore
My best guess is, I happened to gore two of your very favorite oxen, and the threat to your self-esteem is so great that you need a way to discount everything I said without reliance on substance.

More bilmore bullshit. Your argument about rap was paper thin. And I wasn't even arguing with you about people watching too much tv. I was making a point about the fact that you think you're better than people who DO watch tv. I don't give a shit what you think about rap or tv because in both cases YOU'VE ADMITTED you know nothing about either one. Your arrogance arises when you make pronouncements about shit you know nothing about and then turn the argument around to race or political correctness or other forms of other people being sensitive to your crap. That is the overall point.

Originally posted by bilmore
No, I think that, in your three examples, I was correct.

No shit. Have you ever thought you weren't? Either way, you're still missing the point.

Originally posted by bilmore
I've apologized to many people for things on these boards, and IRL, when I've fucked up. I can't imagine that you have ever done that, which makes your point so funny to me.

That's so fucking stupid it's comical. I apologized to EO the other day on IM on the very topic that started this. I apologize all the time when I've done something wrong or stupid. And you know what else I do? I admit when I'm wrong. I can't imagine that you have ever done that.

Originally posted by bilmore
I will concede that you made me back down to "much of the rap that I have ever seen is misogynistic", but I don't recall you ever altering your point, which was, not that misogynistic rap wasn't prevelant but, that I was "arrogant".

You backed down? Okay. Maybe it's because it's hard to argue about something you have conceded you know nothing about. And altering my point? Go back to the beginning of this email to see my point on rap music, which I've only spelled out for you 50 times.

Originally posted by bilmore
I will stand by my statement that all you reality-TV-types watch too much TV, against which you never made any sustantive point except to say that I was "arrogant" for saying so.

You still don't get it. Whether or not I or Barely or anyone else on this board watches too much tv is irrelevant. My criticism of you is that your "joke" was arrogant because what you were really saying was, "you guys are pathetic because you're not more like me." You can argue 'til you're blue in the face that you were just kidding, but I'm sure most people know I'm mainly correct when I say, they were defensive about it because of that. It wasn't a throw away line, like "Damn you guys need to get out more." It was, "Look at me! I have a life and you don't!" And I'd like to note that I think it's hilarious that you would post something like that when you post on this board late at night. Shouldn't you be off enjoying your perfect life? Turn your criticism around on yourself.

Originally posted by bilmore Finally, if we can't make jokes that have any potential of offending anyone on any bad day, we're screwed, which you never addressed at all except to call me "arrogant."

What are you talking about? You're babbling old man. I have no problem with you or anyone else joking about things. Hell, I GOT your joke to leagle and AGREED with you on the substance of your argument with her. I just thought it was amazingly arrogant of you to fail to apply your stupid horn analogy to yourself in a situation that was exactly the same as mine. You don't see what I'm saying because you CAN'T. You're too busy screaming, "I'm right! I'm right!" to understand what is going on around you.

Originally posted by bilmore If sticking to an opinion in the face of unsupported disapproval from you is "arrogant", well, I'll take it, I guess.

Do you think you're surprising me when you say that you'll stick to your opinion in as arrogant a way as possible? You'll make a stupid statement. Someone will call you on it. You'll yell that they're being PC or inserting race or whatever other knee-jerk defense mechanism you're employing that day. And then you'll walk around all day knowing you were right without actually hearing what they said to you.

TM