Fashion Board 11-2-03 - 12-09-03

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
This is anecdotal, but my sister was employed as an accountant at a law firm in a major city in the US. A guy was hired at the exact same time she was. Same position. She was better qualified (more education, more work experience). She found out that he made $10,000 more than she. She inquired as to why and was told that he made more because he had a family to support (she was single at the time).

Okay, good -- that's a real example. And obviously wrong, evil, illegal, etc.

But I've read some of the more elaborate discussions about the claimed huge differential between men and women "in the same jobs," and they are grossly overstating what equates "the same jobs."

To give one example -- before Mrs. Finch stopped working, I was making probably four times her salary. Both lawyers, both from good schools, she a year senior to me and probably did better in school. But I went to a corporate type firm, she went to a plaintiffs' civil rights firm. I worked 30% more hours than her, easily. Are these the same jobs?

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Bil Keane called. He needs you back for another cartoon.

And that my friends, is top five, all-time greatest posts.

TM

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by dtb
[refering to mmmm's rant]
Bull-fucking-shit.

No way a woman is going to make partner in a year she takes 6 months off. No way she's not going to have to take a year off her "seniority" if she takes six months off (and probably another year, just for good measure, to make her prove that she's not giving too much time to her family.)

Cry me a fucking river.

Not to really defend mmmm here, but I think this is actually his point: if a woman takes off six months for maternity leave, she comes back and is set back for a year making partner and is pissed off at the unfairness at the system (rightly or wrongly, I think rightly, but I'm not a partner, either). A man takes off six months paternity leave and makes partner when? Never. Ever. Not after an additional year, not after two. He's just not partnership material.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by bilmore
I make a joke about my wife and my MIL openly planning my life for me, and I get the fucking Taliban thrown back at me? Lighten up, huh?

I'll lighten up when you stop making stupid nauseating jokes.

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Bitch, please:

Click for more royalties for Lester

Leave it to ole Cooter to remember which chicks are hot and which chicks are not. Gotta catalog each coochie for days when catching up is hard and you can only read the bangable posters, huh buddy?

I won't mention that the tone of that post was a little hyperbolic or anything.

[notcasesensitive]

If a poster posts on a bulletin board, but everyone else who looks at the bb has that poster on ignore, does the post really exist?

[LessinSF]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Bitch, please:

Click for more royalties for Lester

She forgot her body fat percentage, although that might be because [insert tired, but true, multiple personality joke here].

Less (Thanks, I'll sent you a referral percentage) inSF

[Atticus Grinch]

I would generally say that lawyers marrying other lawyers is, like law school itself, a narrowing enterprise. (Note that I mean not that people get dumber, but that their experience of life is less ecumenical.) I think it helps a lawyer to be married to a person who never agreed to lawyer groundrules for human thought and interactions. Maybe other intra-professional marriages are similar; I don't know. But lawyers have a unique tendency to use the tools of their trade --- language as a weapon --- in their personal relationships without realizing it. Two-lawyer couples never have the "If you don't stop cross-examining me right now, I'm going to fucking punch you in the nuts" conversation, because they've been trained to think that "irrational" responses to verbal attacks are what is below the belt, so to speak. The rest of the world thinks that cross-examining your spouse is the worse transgression, and the desire to punch someone in the nuts is in fact the more appropriate and human response. That's healthy.

For basically the same reason, many litigators know that when litigating against a business entity, if you're hopeful for settlement, you should wait to cross-examine the business's settlement decisionmaker until it is absolutely necessary for your case. If you must, determine this early and do the depo as far in advance of any settlement mediation as possible. This is so because for 9 out of 10 laypeople, the experience of being rigorously cross-examined is so unpleasant that it's hard to concede anything to the person who did it to you. It sometimes even makes sense to let another lawyer take the lead in a settlement mediation rather than put the guy who writes the check across the table from the woman who cross-examined him two weeks before. Some laypeople have no problem with it, but they're rare.

I'm always amused by the lawyer-with-a-lawyer-spouse who complains that the staff doesn't understand em. I want to shake em and say "That's because you only have one fucking speed."

But I don't discourage lawyers from marrying other lawyers. When they divorce, it's spectacular. We're talking "War of the Roses" type stuff.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
I'll lighten up when you stop making stupid nauseating jokes.

Well, I honestly don't see it, but I apologize if I offended you. Didn't mean to.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by bilmore
I make a joke about my wife and my MIL openly planning my life for me, and I get the fucking Taliban thrown back at me? Lighten up, huh?

OK, here's what I want for Christmas.

1. A Gucci purse with matching wallet and shoes.
2. A spa day in the wine country - if it's good enough for Cameron Diaz, it's good enough for me.
3. A spa day anywhere with wine included.
4. Gift certificate to anywhere. I can usually find something somewhere that works for me.
5. Wine.
6. A bathtub full of gin and olives.
7. Gift certificate to any of my favorite restaurants.

Originally posted by LessinSF
She forgot her body fat percentage, although that might be because [insert tired, but true, multiple personality joke here].

Less (Thanks, I'll sent you a referral percentage) inSF

I remember the body fat percentage. I dont equate that with saying I am hot. Thats like you saying you are hot bc your one redeeming physical characteristic is that you are not fat. Which I cannot confirm by the way. Pretty weak, Gareth. I am sure you will try again though, you dont usually go down in the first round. No pun of course. Usually takes about twelve rounds on a good day but I digress.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Hmm, who knew my mom had children in Canada?

Just for the record, this one was too easy, so I caught and released.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
This is a statistic I've never understood, and one that I suspect incorrectly defines "in the same jobs."

Can anyone identify women and men with differential incomes who are really in the same jobs, doing the same thing with the same value? Don't respond "the male GPs make more than the female GPs at my firm" unless you have a basis to show that those compensation differences are not merited by rainmaking, work, seniority, or other valid factors.

I have a male counterpart in another division that makes a lot more than I do. We were in the same law school class. We have the same titles, and we do the same thing though our divisions are slightly different and we face different issues. The only difference between our jobs is that he's been with the institution his entire career and I lateralled in nearly two years ago, and his division may value the work he does more than mine does. He supervises more people. I have enough work for more people, but I don't have the budget for them.

Originally posted by bilmore
Well, I honestly don't see it, but I apologize if I offended you. Didn't mean to.

dude. dont bust out the ultimate act of passive-aggression now. Has she given you a reason to think she is dumb?

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I have a male counterpart in another division that makes a lot more than I do. We were in the same law school class. We have the same titles, and we do the same thing though our divisions are slightly different and we face different issues. The only difference between our jobs is that he's been with the institution his entire career and I lateralled in nearly two years ago, and his division may value the work he does more than mine does. He supervises more people. I have enough work for more people, but I don't have the budget for them.

I would be pretty pissed off then. Maybe enough to drop a hint or two and make a call to an employment litigator.