Still Hating America.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Penske_Account

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Adder
You really think the world is this simple, eh?

Urban schools districts, on the whole, spend a lot more than suburban and rural school districts, yet get worse results. And you think that is because of a lack of standards are urban school districts? Can you think of any reasons why it might be more expensive to run urban schools?

Adder, you can't win this fight.

Typically, for someone to make sweeping statements about schools ("money doesn't matter". "Dem-run districts bad, R-run districts good"), the way Spanky does, they need extensive studies, supported by reams of data.

Spanky, however, is relying on an anecdote, probably based on the experience of two guys he roomed with in college.

You just can't combat that kind of analysis.

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Adder, you can't win this fight.

Typically, for someone to make sweeping statements about schools ("money doesn't matter". "Dem-run districts bad, R-run districts good"), the way Spanky does, they need extensive studies, supported by reams of data.

Spanky, however, is relying on an anecdote, probably based on the experience of two guys he roomed with in college.

You just can't combat that kind of analysis.

Actually, the easier answer is usually to just blame the Teachers' Union.

aV

[Adder]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Adder, you can't win this fight.

Typically, for someone to make sweeping statements about schools ("money doesn't matter". "Dem-run districts bad, R-run districts good"), the way Spanky does, they need extensive studies, supported by reams of data.

Spanky, however, is relying on an anecdote, probably based on the experience of two guys he roomed with in college.

You just can't combat that kind of analysis.

You are right.

But you also can't win the Sebby-isn't-middle-class argument either. Which we apparently were having for the 80th time.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Adder
You are right.

But you also can't win the Sebby-isn't-middle-class argument either. Which we apparently were having for the 80th time.

Sarcasm and Stupidity are an annoying combination. Yes there are other elements that might make urban schools more expensive, but they are not that significant. I can't speak for the rest of the country, but in California the biggest problem with our inner city school is that the school boards are strongly influenced by the Teachers Union because the Democrats are in control.

LA Unified is a perfect example. They have the dance of the Lemons where it is impossible to fire a teacher or a Principle, so once parents complain about the bad teachers and principles they just move them to another school and move in another Lemon to take their place. The Lemons tend to coalesce in the schools where the parents are least involved, the places that need the most competent teacher.

The Teacher's Union in California has fought to defend Social Promotion (kids held back are hard to handle) they have fought any sort of testing every step of the way (they don't want to teach to the test), and have made it impossible to fire anyone. In LA Unified they were passing tons of students that couldn't read or write. But now there is an exit exam enforced by the state, and LA unified has had to start teaching the students. Of course the Unions are still pushing to have this test discontinued. It is their number one priority in California.

Meanwhile, since the test just tests basic mathematical, reading and writing skills, the teachers, in order to "teach to the test" are having to teach their students to read, write and do basic math. There have also been attempts to decrease the amount of money spent on bureaucracy by limiting the percentage of the budget to be spent on bureaucracy as opposed to the class room. Interestingly the Teachers Unions have fought this also.

In California it is not that complicated. There is enough money in the system (people do more with less money) the problem is the Teacher's Unions. Interestingly there are urban schools in Fresno and Bakersfield where they have large gang problems, teenage pregnancy etc, but since the teacher Unions have less influence in the valley these schools produce more students that can read and write for less money.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Spanky
...it is impossible to fire a teacher or a Principle...

Product of the public schools?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
...

Spanky, however, is relying on an anecdote, probably based on the experience of two guys he roomed with in college.

...

I thought he "deposed" the neighborhood kids when they came by to see the deer?

And that Hank, he hears much of his stuff in the boys room in the local Junior High -- he goes right to the source!

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Adder
You really think the world is this simple, eh?

Urban schools districts, on the whole, spend a lot more than suburban and rural school districts, yet get worse results. And you think that is because of a lack of standards are urban school districts? Can you think of any reasons why it might be more expensive to run urban schools?

Teacher's unions are more powerful in urban areas?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by andViolins
Actually, the easier answer is usually to just blame the Teachers' Union.

aV

In the spirit of bi-partisanship, I agree with this.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
Sarcasm and Stupidity are an annoying combination. Yes there are other elements that might make urban schools more expensive, but they are not that significant. I can't speak for the rest of the country, but in California the biggest problem with our inner city school is that the school boards are strongly influenced by the Teachers Union because the Democrats are in control.

LA Unified is a perfect example. They have the dance of the Lemons where it is impossible to fire a teacher or a Principle, so once parents complain about the bad teachers and principles they just move them to another school and move in another Lemon to take their place. The Lemons tend to coalesce in the schools where the parents are least involved, the places that need the most competent teacher.

The Teacher's Union in California has fought to defend Social Promotion (kids held back are hard to handle) they have fought any sort of testing every step of the way (they don't want to teach to the test), and have made it impossible to fire anyone. In LA Unified they were passing tons of students that couldn't read or write. But now there is an exit exam enforced by the state, and LA unified has had to start teaching the students. Of course the Unions are still pushing to have this test discontinued. It is their number one priority in California.

Meanwhile, since the test just tests basic mathematical, reading and writing skills, the teachers, in order to "teach to the test" are having to teach their students to read, write and do basic math. There have also been attempts to decrease the amount of money spent on bureaucracy by limiting the percentage of the budget to be spent on bureaucracy as opposed to the class room. Interestingly the Teachers Unions have fought this also.

In California it is not that complicated. There is enough money in the system (people do more with less money) the problem is the Teacher's Unions. Interestingly there are urban schools in Fresno and Bakersfield where they have large gang problems, teenage pregnancy etc, but since the teacher Unions have less influence in the valley these schools produce more students that can read and write for less money.

The teachers unions and the leaders of the same should be prosecuted under RICO (fraud and extortion, terorism). Short of that the people should rise up and bring them into the town square and they should be drawn and quartered. I only wish Albert Shankar was still alive to be the first to go.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Product of the public schools?

Product of the power of the teachers Unions. The less powerful they are the less stringent their contract. In LA they write their own contracts.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
Product of the power of the teachers Unions.

Why are they powerful?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Spanky
Product of the power of the teachers Unions. The less powerful they are the less stringent their contract. In LA they write their own contracts.

This is the bestest whiff ever!

You both miss my point (what were your reading comprehension scores?) AND provide still more reason to be skeptical of yours.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Spanky
Product of the power of the teachers Unions. The less powerful they are the less stringent their contract. In LA they write their own contracts.

Odd. In LA, I heard that the teachers Unions are so powerful that their contracts aren't even written. They're more an amorphous cloud that floats 'round the head of the Principle.

ETA: Today is Monday. Teacher's Union, ZOOOOOP!

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Why are they powerful?

the same reason why the Islamofacists are powerful, they are lawless criminals and they use that to intimidate the masses.