Still Hating America.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
So you're saying the way to solve the realization problem is to retain the tax? I agree with the second proposition, but don't see why that's a problem, especially since one can already defer tax by not selling an asset.

First off, with a public company, at best the incentive you note means that no dividends are paid. Yet dividends are paid now, despite being taxed at the personal level and not being deductible at the corporate level. How would eliminated the corporate tax change that? If shareholders demand dividends, they still will. And say they don't pay dividends, becuse shareholders prefer retained earnings (as with microsoft for years). Well, there are still gains to the company. If anyone sells, they pay the tax on those gains. Only the people who don't sell can "defer" the tax. But that's been a problem for years, and has nothing to do withthe coproate tax. It's a problem with the personal income tax and the way it treats realization events.

So you're down to closely held/private/S corps. Same reasoning applies, though. If you and I have that corporation, I'll leave my money in it so long as there's food on teh table. But if we're running a good business, I suspect that once in a while we'll agree to pay out dividends to ourselves and go enjoy a nice steak and bottle of Bordeaux at Mortons. And we'll pay the tax we have to. And, if we decide to keep it in the corporation for perpetuity for some reason, why should it be taxed? If you're worried about that problem, change the k-gain rule here too and require realization of gains at more frequent intervals than upon sale.

Realization and integration of corporate and personal income tax are two of the hairiest problems in tax policy. They have both been debated for decades by people far smarter than me. I have some ideas, a couple of which even make sense. But it would take far more time and require far more liquor than I have available at the moment.

Perhaps we can met to hash this out in May, when we can call upon the legions at Taxapalooza.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Perhaps we can met to hash this out in May, when we can call upon the legions at Taxapalooza.

Somehow, the hookups initiated on the FB seem better to me.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Translation: My name is Hank. I railed on and on that Democrats, mainly rich Democrats, were responsible for bad schools. So I was asked the obvious question, which is to identify someplace where Republicans, who've held so much power for so long, have created a model school system. After trying to fart this off with a few stupid responses, I finally came up with the facile answer of saying Bill Clinton is really smart. I forgot, of course, that his home state was run by Democrats while he was in public school. Having been revealed, once again, as a snide idiot with nothing of substance to say, I will accuse Sidd -- and, in fact, all Democrats -- of being racists. And I will long for Penske to come post the picture of Byrd that he loves to post, which we all know has been altered to falsely suggest that Byrd was a member of the Klan sometime after the Korean War.

these schools where you grew up... they let you interact with your classmates the way you do here- with no respect and blind hatred for anyone who disagrees with you at all- your schools let you act this way?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Somehow, the hookups initiated on the FB seem better to me.

I've already been there. All that's left is drinks and conversation. NTTAWWT.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Question: If the FBI can enter a congressional office to execute a search warrant, why can't the House Sargeant of Arms enter the White House to seize computer hard drives to execute a valid subpoena?

I know I'm way behind -- but I bet the answer has something to do with one being a law enforcement agency, and one being essentially a security guard.

S_A_M

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
these schools where you grew up... they let you interact with your classmates the way you do here- with no respect and blind hatred for anyone who disagrees with you at all- your schools let you act this way?

Hank, you've had nothing of substance to say all day. (Why should this day be different....) You've just been flinging insults.

You set yourself up with your silly arguments. If you want to be the village idiot, shouting about how rich Democrats have destroyed our schools, blah blah blah, then don't be surprised when you get treated like the village idiot.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Unless we start euthanizing the elderly, we need to seriously reform a system well past its prime.

Where is the market adjustment for age of retirement? When SS started, most folks died in their late fifties. Now these fuckers collect - and live on Medicaid - for 20-30 years.

Absolutely true.

S_A_M

[Sidd Finch]

I'm amazed that Slave hasn't posted this yet.

(German court cites Koran as basis to deny speedy divorce to woman whose husband beat her; since they were married in Morocco, it wasn't really a hardship.)

And, yes, that's an outrage.



On the other hand, I'm not the least bit surprised that Slave hasn't posted this.

(Giuliani flip-flops on gun control, and the need for national gun control laws.)

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Absolutely true.

S_A_M

2. I'd increase the eligible ages by 5 years in a heartbeat.


And I'd means-test, at least at the margins. I represented an estate, the owner of which drew Social Security despite having a net worth in the 9 figures.

[bi-partisanship fairy]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Translation: My name is Hank. I railed on and on that Democrats, mainly rich Democrats, were responsible for bad schools. So I was asked the obvious question, which is to identify someplace where Republicans, who've held so much power for so long, have created a model school system. After trying to fart this off with a few stupid responses, I finally came up with the facile answer of saying Bill Clinton is really smart. I forgot, of course, that his home state was run by Democrats while he was in public school. Having been revealed, once again, as a snide idiot with nothing of substance to say, I will accuse Sidd -- and, in fact, all Democrats -- of being racists. And I will long for Penske to come post the picture of Byrd that he loves to post, which we all know has been altered to falsely suggest that Byrd was a member of the Klan sometime after the Korean War.

Hi! Long-time lurker, first time poster, seeking to weigh in from the center of the spectrum in a bi-partisanship fashion and bring the ideological extremists together, as we are all AMERICANS.

As Queen Latifah sang, U..N....I....T...Y!!!! That's a unity!

Anywhose, Sidd, it seems odd for someone who is so torqued about his hi-minded liberal credentials, to be an apologist for a proven racist. It's bad enough that the average Democrat-Americans passively follow his leadership, and thereby implicitly endorse his hateful racist legacy, but to actively apologize for him and promote his leadership is sick.

However, as an anonymous poster on an obscure chatting board my insite, as above, maybe marginalized, but I recall several years back, acclaimed and universally respected, on both sides of the political divide, Pulitzer Prize winning Washington Post columnist and Editorial Page Deputy Editor Colbert I King wrote a column that speaks to the truth of Byrd's hateful racism and Klan activities.

In the spirit of bi-partisanship I copy it here, and maybe it helps some of the afflicted take a good hard look in the mirror at the hate that they are supporting. Enjoy!

cite here
washingtonpost.com

Sen. Byrd: The View From Darrell's Barbershop

By Colbert I. King

Saturday, March 2, 2002; Page A23


Things finally started to calm down in Darrell's barbershop after Big Jerome, the trash talker, left the premises. The place had been in an uproar minutes earlier when Jerome, angry at being left out of the poor-mouthing contest between Sen. Robert Byrd and Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, cut loose with some of his own choice "I'm so poor . . ." lines.

The fellows were still wiping away tears of laughter. But Darrell hoped the shop would get back to normal so he and the other barbers could get on with their work. Before long, with composure regained, customers and barbers were lost in their reveries.

It didn't last long.

Fishbone, now seated in Darrell's chair, broke the silence. "Somebody help me," he pleaded.

"Look, I understand all that stuff Byrd and O'Neill were laying on each other about not having running water, telephones and electricity when they were young. And I get the bit about 'little wooden outhouses.' "

"But," said Fishbone, wrinkling his brow, "when Byrd took a shot at O'Neill for once being a big shot in a big-bucks corporation, O'Neill got all teary-eyed and said something about dedicating his life to getting rid of rules that limit human potential. And he started talking about rules that said, 'Colored don't enter here.' Can somebody tell me what that was all about?" wailed Fishbone.

The only sound was that of scissors snipping away.

Finally Fatmouth piped up. "Man, don'tcha know? It was in all the papers!"

"I don't take the paper," said Fishbone sheepishly.

"See there," thundered Fatmouth. "If you wanna keep a secret from certain folks," he said, "all you have to do is put it in a book." "Man," Fatmouth said indignantly, "you should start reading The Post." (Yes, 'tis a shameless promotion, but my wife and two dogs also have to eat.)

"All right, you guys, chill," ordered number two barber Bobby T. "Fishbone," he said with exasperation, "O'Neill was cracking on Byrd for having been a member of the Ku Klux Klan."

"He was what?" asked Fishbone incredulously. "You mean that powerful ol' dude in the Senate was one of those Kluxers in sheets and pointed hoods who burned crosses and hated black folks?"

"If I'm lyin', I'm flyin'," said Bobby T.

Herman, who was sweeping up hair cuttings on the floor, tried to come to Byrd's rescue. "As I recall," said Herman, "they said it was a 'youthful indiscretion' or something like that."

" 'Youthful indiscretion' my butt," interjected Rodney, who, despite having already had his hair cut, couldn't leave the shop.

"Sounds just like when my Aunt Edith shot her boyfriend and said it was an accident," he said. "Aunt Marilyn was downstairs when it happened. She heard the gun when it went off.

" 'One "boom" sounds like an accident,' Aunt Marilyn announced.

" 'Boom, boom, boom' sure ain't."

Just then, Mr. Jackson, a Washington old-timer and local historian known for his photographic memory, entered the shop for his weekly trim and chance to smoke his cigar, since Mrs. Jackson was having none of that in her house. He soon caught the drift of the discussion and waited patiently until Darrell turned to him for a definitive reading on the Byrd situation.

"What's the real deal, Mr. Jackson?" asked Darrell.

Settling into a well-worn chair in the middle of the shop where he usually held court, Mr. Jackson pulled out his stogie, lit it, took a few unhurried puffs and let the smoke drift to the ceiling. "The real story came out during the 1960 presidential primary in West Virginia, where Byrd was a key figure in the 'Stop Kennedy' campaign," Jackson said.

"Word got around that Byrd had been a Klan member, but he tried to say it was only briefly." Mr. Jackson, who'd anticipated a barbershop discussion of just this topic, pulled an old news clipping out of his pocket, an April 21, 1960, Washington Post story by David Wise of the Herald Tribune News Service. He read from it:

"The Ku Klux Klan developed primarily as a terrorist group aimed at the Southern Negro in Reconstruction times, but it is also virulently anti-Catholic."

John F. Kennedy, Mr. Jackson reminded his audience, was Catholic.

On the business about Byrd's brief Klan membership, Mr. Jackson again quoted the story: "The fact is that he was a Kleagle, or organizer, for the Klan during World War II and wrote as late as 1946 to Dr. Samuel Green of Atlanta, Imperial Grand Wizard of the Klan, recommending a friend as a Kleagle and urging promotion of the Klan throughout the nation."

Mr. Jackson said the story also reported that in 1946, Byrd wrote to Imperial Wizard Green: "The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia."

As for "youthful indiscretion," Mr. Jackson observed that in 1946, Robert Byrd was 29 years old. American Taliban John Walker Lindh, he pointed out, is 20.

[b]Byrd knew what he was doing, said Mr. Jackson. In 1945, a year earlier, Byrd wrote to Mississippi's virulent segregationist Sen. Theodore Bilbo that he would never serve in an integrated Army. "Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds," Byrd wrote. Confronted with the letter in 1999, Byrd said he didn't recall writing it, but he said, "I will not dispute the quote, though I consider it deplorable."

Mr. Jackson, ever the historian, said that in 1946, the same year Kleagle Robert Byrd was writing to his imperial wizard, six blacks were lynched in America, including two black couples at the Moore's Ford Bridge near Monroe, Ga., and a young black man who was burned alive with a blowtorch by a Louisiana mob. And a black Army veteran also had his eyes gouged out with the butt of a billy club by South Carolina police.

The resurgence of lynchings and violence against blacks in the South got so bad in '46 that President Truman was spurred to order a special federal investigation. That same year, Byrd was elected to the West Virginia legislature. Four years later, he went to Congress, where he's been ever since.

And that, said Mr. Jackson, may help explain why Sen. Byrd rode the city so hard when he became chairman of the Senate Appropriations subcommittee on the District of Columbia.

At a public hearing this week, said Mr. Jackson, Byrd lectured the Bush administration on the difficulties of rooting out terrorists. Mr. Jackson added softly, "He should know."

With that recitation, Mr. Jackson crossed his legs at the knee, folded his hands in his lap and said primly, "You gentlemen may take it from there."

A hush fell over the shop.

An angry voice was heard from the back of the shop.

"And since he's been in Washington, Byrd's been using my money and yours to build monuments to himself in West Virginia." It was Fast Frankie, who, until that moment, had not said a word.

Frankie has folks in the Charleston area and gets back to visit frequently. Frankie said Byrd has more pork in West Virginia than there is in all the packing houses in the world -- all in his name.

"Don't think so?" he challenged. "There's the Robert C. Byrd Highway, the Robert C. Byrd Hilltop Office Complex, the Robert C. Byrd Federal Courthouse, the Robert C. Byrd Life Long Learning Center, the Robert C. Byrd Locks and Dams, the Robert C. Byrd Rural Health Center, the Robert C. Byrd Academic and Technology Center, the Robert C. Byrd United Technical Center, the Robert C. Byrd High School, the Robert C. Byrd Health Sciences Center, the Robert C. Byrd Institute for Advanced Flexible Manufacturing . . ."

It was getting dark outside, and everyone was eager to go home. But Darrell couldn't budge Fast Frankie. So he flipped the "closed" sign on the door, locked his barbershop and left Fast Frankie inside, comfortably seated in his chair, still going strong:

". . . the Robert C. Byrd Green Bank Telescope, the Robert C. Byrd National Technology Transfer Center, the Robert C. Byrd Intermodal Transportation Center and Garage . . ."

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
2. I'd increase the eligible ages by 5 years in a heartbeat.


And I'd means-test, at least at the margins. I represented an estate, the owner of which drew Social Security despite having a net worth in the 9 figures.

They ought to let people who don't need it forego it and get a tax credit for the amount they forego.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by bi-partisanship fairy
blah, blah, blah

Welcome back.

[Adder]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
They ought to let people who don't need it forego it and get a tax credit for the amount they forego.

What purpose would this serve? We could save tax money on one end and give it up in another?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by bi-partisanship fairy
Hi! Long-time lurker, first time poster, seeking to weigh in from the center of the spectrum in a bi-partisanship fashion and bring the ideological extremists together, as we are all AMERICANS.

As Queen Latifah sang, U..N....I....T...Y!!!! That's a unity!

Anywhose, Sidd, it seems odd for someone who is so torqued about his hi-minded liberal credentials, to be an apologist for a proven racist. It's bad enough that the average Democrat-Americans passively follow his leadership, and thereby implicitly endorse his hateful racist legacy, but to actively apologize for him and promote his leadership is sick.

However, as an anonymous poster on an obscure chatting board my insite, as above, maybe marginalized, but I recall several years back, acclaimed and universally respected, on both sides of the political divide, Pulitzer Prize winning Washington Post columnist and Editorial Page Deputy Editor Colbert I King wrote a column that speaks to the truth of Byrd's hateful racism and Klan activities.

In the spirit of bi-partisanship I copy it here, and maybe it helps some of the afflicted take a good hard look in the mirror at the hate that they are supporting. Enjoy!

cite here
washingtonpost.com

Sen. Byrd: The View From Darrell's Barbershop

By Colbert I. King

Saturday, March 2, 2002; Page A23


Things finally started to calm down in Darrell's barbershop after Big Jerome, the trash talker, left the premises. The place had been in an uproar minutes earlier when Jerome, angry at being left out of the poor-mouthing contest between Sen. Robert Byrd and Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, cut loose with some of his own choice "I'm so poor . . ." lines.

The fellows were still wiping away tears of laughter. But Darrell hoped the shop would get back to normal so he and the other barbers could get on with their work. Before long, with composure regained, customers and barbers were lost in their reveries.

It didn't last long.

Fishbone, now seated in Darrell's chair, broke the silence. "Somebody help me," he pleaded.

"Look, I understand all that stuff Byrd and O'Neill were laying on each other about not having running water, telephones and electricity when they were young. And I get the bit about 'little wooden outhouses.' "

"But," said Fishbone, wrinkling his brow, "when Byrd took a shot at O'Neill for once being a big shot in a big-bucks corporation, O'Neill got all teary-eyed and said something about dedicating his life to getting rid of rules that limit human potential. And he started talking about rules that said, 'Colored don't enter here.' Can somebody tell me what that was all about?" wailed Fishbone.

The only sound was that of scissors snipping away.

Finally Fatmouth piped up. "Man, don'tcha know? It was in all the papers!"

"I don't take the paper," said Fishbone sheepishly.

"See there," thundered Fatmouth. "If you wanna keep a secret from certain folks," he said, "all you have to do is put it in a book." "Man," Fatmouth said indignantly, "you should start reading The Post." (Yes, 'tis a shameless promotion, but my wife and two dogs also have to eat.)

"All right, you guys, chill," ordered number two barber Bobby T. "Fishbone," he said with exasperation, "O'Neill was cracking on Byrd for having been a member of the Ku Klux Klan."

"He was what?" asked Fishbone incredulously. "You mean that powerful ol' dude in the Senate was one of those Kluxers in sheets and pointed hoods who burned crosses and hated black folks?"

"If I'm lyin', I'm flyin'," said Bobby T.

Herman, who was sweeping up hair cuttings on the floor, tried to come to Byrd's rescue. "As I recall," said Herman, "they said it was a 'youthful indiscretion' or something like that."

" 'Youthful indiscretion' my butt," interjected Rodney, who, despite having already had his hair cut, couldn't leave the shop.

"Sounds just like when my Aunt Edith shot her boyfriend and said it was an accident," he said. "Aunt Marilyn was downstairs when it happened. She heard the gun when it went off.

" 'One "boom" sounds like an accident,' Aunt Marilyn announced.

" 'Boom, boom, boom' sure ain't."

Just then, Mr. Jackson, a Washington old-timer and local historian known for his photographic memory, entered the shop for his weekly trim and chance to smoke his cigar, since Mrs. Jackson was having none of that in her house. He soon caught the drift of the discussion and waited patiently until Darrell turned to him for a definitive reading on the Byrd situation.

"What's the real deal, Mr. Jackson?" asked Darrell.

Settling into a well-worn chair in the middle of the shop where he usually held court, Mr. Jackson pulled out his stogie, lit it, took a few unhurried puffs and let the smoke drift to the ceiling. "The real story came out during the 1960 presidential primary in West Virginia, where Byrd was a key figure in the 'Stop Kennedy' campaign," Jackson said.

"Word got around that Byrd had been a Klan member, but he tried to say it was only briefly." Mr. Jackson, who'd anticipated a barbershop discussion of just this topic, pulled an old news clipping out of his pocket, an April 21, 1960, Washington Post story by David Wise of the Herald Tribune News Service. He read from it:

"The Ku Klux Klan developed primarily as a terrorist group aimed at the Southern Negro in Reconstruction times, but it is also virulently anti-Catholic."

John F. Kennedy, Mr. Jackson reminded his audience, was Catholic.

On the business about Byrd's brief Klan membership, Mr. Jackson again quoted the story: "The fact is that he was a Kleagle, or organizer, for the Klan during World War II and wrote as late as 1946 to Dr. Samuel Green of Atlanta, Imperial Grand Wizard of the Klan, recommending a friend as a Kleagle and urging promotion of the Klan throughout the nation."

Mr. Jackson said the story also reported that in 1946, Byrd wrote to Imperial Wizard Green: "The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia."

As for "youthful indiscretion," Mr. Jackson observed that in 1946, Robert Byrd was 29 years old. American Taliban John Walker Lindh, he pointed out, is 20.

[b]Byrd knew what he was doing, said Mr. Jackson. In 1945, a year earlier, Byrd wrote to Mississippi's virulent segregationist Sen. Theodore Bilbo that he would never serve in an integrated Army. "Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds," Byrd wrote. Confronted with the letter in 1999, Byrd said he didn't recall writing it, but he said, "I will not dispute the quote, though I consider it deplorable."

Mr. Jackson, ever the historian, said that in 1946, the same year Kleagle Robert Byrd was writing to his imperial wizard, six blacks were lynched in America, including two black couples at the Moore's Ford Bridge near Monroe, Ga., and a young black man who was burned alive with a blowtorch by a Louisiana mob. And a black Army veteran also had his eyes gouged out with the butt of a billy club by South Carolina police.

The resurgence of lynchings and violence against blacks in the South got so bad in '46 that President Truman was spurred to order a special federal investigation. That same year, Byrd was elected to the West Virginia legislature. Four years later, he went to Congress, where he's been ever since.

And that, said Mr. Jackson, may help explain why Sen. Byrd rode the city so hard when he became chairman of the Senate Appropriations subcommittee on the District of Columbia.

At a public hearing this week, said Mr. Jackson, Byrd lectured the Bush administration on the difficulties of rooting out terrorists. Mr. Jackson added softly, "He should know."

With that recitation, Mr. Jackson crossed his legs at the knee, folded his hands in his lap and said primly, "You gentlemen may take it from there."

A hush fell over the shop.

An angry voice was heard from the back of the shop.

"And since he's been in Washington, Byrd's been using my money and yours to build monuments to himself in West Virginia." It was Fast Frankie, who, until that moment, had not said a word.

Frankie has folks in the Charleston area and gets back to visit frequently. Frankie said Byrd has more pork in West Virginia than there is in all the packing houses in the world -- all in his name.

"Don't think so?" he challenged. "There's the Robert C. Byrd Highway, the Robert C. Byrd Hilltop Office Complex, the Robert C. Byrd Federal Courthouse, the Robert C. Byrd Life Long Learning Center, the Robert C. Byrd Locks and Dams, the Robert C. Byrd Rural Health Center, the Robert C. Byrd Academic and Technology Center, the Robert C. Byrd United Technical Center, the Robert C. Byrd High School, the Robert C. Byrd Health Sciences Center, the Robert C. Byrd Institute for Advanced Flexible Manufacturing . . ."

It was getting dark outside, and everyone was eager to go home. But Darrell couldn't budge Fast Frankie. So he flipped the "closed" sign on the door, locked his barbershop and left Fast Frankie inside, comfortably seated in his chair, still going strong:

". . . the Robert C. Byrd Green Bank Telescope, the Robert C. Byrd National Technology Transfer Center, the Robert C. Byrd Intermodal Transportation Center and Garage . . ."

did Byrd go to public schools?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
did Byrd go to public schools?

Did Hank?