Still Hating America.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
our past practice of ignoring terrorists when they, say, blow up our ships and embassies

Does "our" refers to Detroit-area lawyers? Harvard graduates? Interwebs-tall basketball players? It does not refer to our government, which had quite a few people working on what to do about terrorists.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Establishing that leading Republicans and Democrats agree on x is not the same thing as establishing that everyone thinks x or that x is true.

Moreover, pretending that everyone was in agreement about Iraq's WMD is silly: Inasmuch as you now say that Clinton and Gore agreed with Bush's understanding of the problem in some broad sense, it is nonetheless true that they did not invade Iraq. Therefore, they either disagreed on (important) specifics about the facts on the ground, or they were substantially smarter or wiser about how to solve the problems. Or both.

they were in charge while 9/11 was being planned. if clinton had been in power 9/12 he would have invaded Iraq.

But I'm not even arguing that. My point was assume:

1 9/11
2 Sadaam hates the US
3 Iraq has WMDs

I agree Gore might well have choosen differently than bush. I think the voters sensed that with Kerry also.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Does "our" refers to Detroit-area lawyers? Harvard graduates? Interwebs-tall basketball players? It does not refer to our government, which had quite a few people working on what to do about terrorists.

yes. in the 6 years after WTC I clinton got the guy to make a plan to hand to bush 8 months into his term. but I'm not doing this one again either.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
76? There is NO reason to stop drinking, smoking, eating sausage, repressing dissidents, etc...

I knew you'd like that quote.

S_A_M

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
they were in charge while 9/11 was being planned. if clinton had been in power 9/12 he would have invaded Iraq.

But I'm not even arguing that.

I think that's completely mistaken, but I won't say so because you're not arguing it.

My point was assume:

1 9/11
2 Sadaam hates the US
3 Iraq has WMDs

I agree Gore might well have choosen differently than bush. I think the voters sensed that with Kerry also.

What does 9/11 have to do with it? 9/11 didn't change anything about the risks we face from dictators with WMD. Unless you want to add counter-factual assumptions about Saddam's long love for and alliance with Al Qaeda.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
they were in charge while 9/11 was being planned. if clinton had been in power 9/12 he would have invaded Iraq.

But I'm not even arguing that. My point was assume:

1 9/11
2 Sadaam hates the US
3 Iraq has WMDs

I agree Gore might well have choosen differently than bush. I think the voters sensed that with Kerry also.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Why not merge the executive branch and the RNC?

Ooooooh! Political trash talk!

Separate _these_ powers beeyootch!

S_A_M

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter

let the adults talk?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
yes. in the 6 years after WTC I clinton got the guy to make a plan to hand to bush 8 months into his term. but I'm not doing this one again either.

With all the books that have been written on the subject, it's probably wise for you not to go there. Someone here might have read one or two of them, and then you might look stupid.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I think that's completely mistaken, but I won't say so because you're not arguing it.



What does 9/11 have to do with it? 9/11 didn't change anything about the risks we face from dictators with WMD. Unless you want to add counter-factual assumptions about Saddam's long love for and alliance with Al Qaeda.

He is someone who hates the US and has bad stuff he could give to other people that hate us, but before 9/11 we didn't know how much they hated us. after 9/11 we know they hate us really a lot.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What does 9/11 have to do with it? 9/11 didn't change anything about the risks we face from dictators with WMD. Unless you want to add counter-factual assumptions about Saddam's long love for and alliance with Al Qaeda.

Ty --

The 9/11 attacks didn't change the underlying facts, true. But they drastically changed people's understanding and awareness of the threats we faced. That's the key. Politicians are people too, and responsive to people.

Maybe on a purely objective level, there was a heightened or exaggerated reaction to 9/11 -- but that is also human nature.

Politics and foreign policy aren't an academic exercise -- which is why a guy like George W Bush can become President.

S_A_M

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
With all the books that have been written on the subject, it's probably wise for you not to go there. Someone here might have read one or two of them, and then you might look stupid.

bush kept reading a book on 9/11 morning?

[Hank Chinaski]

has been drafting a reply to something for about a half hour. when you see it, no matter how half baked, know that is was a considered and thought out attempt to engage. Please respond with all due respect.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
bush kept reading a book on 9/11 morning?

Just to prove he could.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
I knew you'd like that quote.

S_A_M

You gotta love Boris.

Even his work with Rocky & Bullwinkle.