Still Hating America.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Not Bob
God help me, but here I go.

Are you fucking nuts? I can see a sane person arguing that, once the New Deal went into effect, combined with the growth of federal government during WWII, the market was "gelded" -- but what, exactly, regulation are you talking about here? Because in my view, there was none.

The Supremes held that the freedom of contract protected the rights of 8 year olds to work in textile mills. There was no central bank -- private enterprise almost bankrupted the federal government by a market corner on gold during the late 19th Century, and JP Morgan -- out of the goodness of his heart (and enlightened self-interest) bailed the government out of a panic (as depressions/recessions used to be called). Henry Frick used machine guns on his workers.



That's a different argument. Which ones fall into the 9/10th?

You're unfamiliar with the other Roosevelt's work? His trust busting marked the emergence of the govt as the proactive market regulator.

There was and will always be a need to run to the court to redress gross improprieties like child labor. But when the pendulum shifts to the point that we have people suing over predatory lending on the theory a person intelligent enough to attend a closing is too stupid to understand what he's signing, we've certainly come too far in the other direction. We're at an extreme pendulum shift where the notion of utilizing the govt - by both business and those who'd seek to have it give thm others' wealth - is overtaking the notion of finding away to do it yourself. Hyper-regulation is part of that universe.

Think of it like a basketball game with hair trigger refs. It's shitty, right? Everybody's always at the line. That's what people are like these days. Suing, or running to get a rule somewhere to shove in someone's face, or calling a lobbyist to get some law passed for you, is too much an accepted instrument. That shit should be safe, legal and rare.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Do you think we have enough regulation of dog food, or do you own a dog?

2 cats, and yes.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
2 cats, and yes.

You're kidding, right? Have you checked to see if your pet food has melamine filler? Do you know what I'm talking about? There is, for all intensive purposes, no regulation of this stuff.

eta:

Here's one view:

• I woke up Saturday morning in Chicago and turned on Headline News, only to to learn to my horror that the pet food my cat (who’s back in my New York apartment) has been eating had only now been recalled by the manufacturer. In the previous week I’d been appalled by the criminal ineptness of the pet food industry in dealing with the potential poisoning of hundreds of thousands of beloved creatures. But I’d felt a bit smug because I’d switched my cat to a prescription only brand of cat food before I left.
  
  Still the behavior of the pet food industry seems to me to be an example of everything that’s wrong with unregulated markets that privilege unrestricted greed over concern for the lives of their customers The failure of testing for rat poison? The delay in notifying the public even after belated testing led to deaths of test animals. Is there a circle of hell low enough for these evil creeps who continued to profit off people’s love for animals while keeping the pipelines of poison (and profit) open? Did they think no one would find out?
  
  Still I must admit I’ve been all too complacent about the whole matter because (at least at first) it didn’t involve my cat’s particular prescription brand. (Bruno has little weight problem; he’s a bit “hefty” as my girlfriend gently puts it).
  
  My own attitude almost reminds me of the epigraph to Nabokov’s Pale Fire. The one from Boswell’s Life of Johnson in which Dr. Johnson is ruminating about a crazed young man going around London shooting cats. And then reverting to thoughts of his own cat, Hodge, Johnson says (I’m doing this from memory: “But Hodge shan’t be shot. No, no, Hodge shan’t be shot.”
  
  It’s some sad, beautiful fusion of wishfulness, wistfulness and dread. The possibility too horrible to contemplate. it sounds selfish, but it’s more self-protective.
  
  But then this morning when I’m halfway across the country, to learn to my horror that my Hodge may be being poisoned at that very moment by the callous morons who can’t be bothered to care enough to figure this out til ten days or so after the first warnings were issued…You know who should be shot? Well I probably shouldn’t dwell on what should be visited upon these dimwit subhumans.
  
  Fortunately I put in place an extensive multi-layered support system for Bruno before I left for Chicago. My sturdily heroic neighbor Larry Rosenblatt rushed over to remove the potentially poisoned food from Bruno’s hungry jaws. My cat care person, the saintly Christine Sarkissian is replacing it with safe food. Although with the pinheads who run the pet food industry, who can be sure what’s safe, since they take their sweet time squeezing every dime out of their customers from the sale of tainted food before troubling themselves to recall it. I hope they all get sued into bankruptcy and have to live on rat poisoned cat food for the rest of their no good lives. (Gee, am I angry about this or what?). And my gifted vet Dr. George Korin is going to take a sample of Bruno’s blood just to make sure that the absence of symptoms doesn’t mean some hidden injury has been done.
  
  But I’d like to take a blood sample myself, from everyone of the pet food manufacturers who allowed this ongoing tragedy to continue to go on. Frankly I’d be surprised to find evidence of human blood in their veins. And if there is any, I hope it turns into red ink overnight.
  
  Rat poison is too good for these rats.

Ron Rosenbaum

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You're kidding, right? Have you checked to see if your pet food has melamine filler? Do you know what I'm talking about? There is, for all intensive purposes, no regulation of this stuff.

eta:

Here's one view:

• I woke up Saturday morning in Chicago and turned on Headline News, only to to learn to my horror that the pet food my cat (who’s back in my New York apartment) has been eating had only now been recalled by the manufacturer. In the previous week I’d been appalled by the criminal ineptness of the pet food industry in dealing with the potential poisoning of hundreds of thousands of beloved creatures. But I’d felt a bit smug because I’d switched my cat to a prescription only brand of cat food before I left.
  
  Still the behavior of the pet food industry seems to me to be an example of everything that’s wrong with unregulated markets that privilege unrestricted greed over concern for the lives of their customers The failure of testing for rat poison? The delay in notifying the public even after belated testing led to deaths of test animals. Is there a circle of hell low enough for these evil creeps who continued to profit off people’s love for animals while keeping the pipelines of poison (and profit) open? Did they think no one would find out?
  
  Still I must admit I’ve been all too complacent about the whole matter because (at least at first) it didn’t involve my cat’s particular prescription brand. (Bruno has little weight problem; he’s a bit “hefty” as my girlfriend gently puts it).
  
  My own attitude almost reminds me of the epigraph to Nabokov’s Pale Fire. The one from Boswell’s Life of Johnson in which Dr. Johnson is ruminating about a crazed young man going around London shooting cats. And then reverting to thoughts of his own cat, Hodge, Johnson says (I’m doing this from memory: “But Hodge shan’t be shot. No, no, Hodge shan’t be shot.”
  
  It’s some sad, beautiful fusion of wishfulness, wistfulness and dread. The possibility too horrible to contemplate. it sounds selfish, but it’s more self-protective.
  
  But then this morning when I’m halfway across the country, to learn to my horror that my Hodge may be being poisoned at that very moment by the callous morons who can’t be bothered to care enough to figure this out til ten days or so after the first warnings were issued…You know who should be shot? Well I probably shouldn’t dwell on what should be visited upon these dimwit subhumans.
  
  Fortunately I put in place an extensive multi-layered support system for Bruno before I left for Chicago. My sturdily heroic neighbor Larry Rosenblatt rushed over to remove the potentially poisoned food from Bruno’s hungry jaws. My cat care person, the saintly Christine Sarkissian is replacing it with safe food. Although with the pinheads who run the pet food industry, who can be sure what’s safe, since they take their sweet time squeezing every dime out of their customers from the sale of tainted food before troubling themselves to recall it. I hope they all get sued into bankruptcy and have to live on rat poisoned cat food for the rest of their no good lives. (Gee, am I angry about this or what?). And my gifted vet Dr. George Korin is going to take a sample of Bruno’s blood just to make sure that the absence of symptoms doesn’t mean some hidden injury has been done.
  
  But I’d like to take a blood sample myself, from everyone of the pet food manufacturers who allowed this ongoing tragedy to continue to go on. Frankly I’d be surprised to find evidence of human blood in their veins. And if there is any, I hope it turns into red ink overnight.
  
  Rat poison is too good for these rats.

Ron Rosenbaum

Not kidding.

That thing has given me an indication of how Simon Cowell must feel early in the AI process. Is that person Coherence Challenged or was that a joke gone terribly sideways? The Nabokov quote was priceless, or is "precious" a better description? Both seem to work.

I truly hope that man's cat is ok, but I'd probably feel a lot less upset than I should if the author were poisoned with something precluding him from fingering a keyboard.

I'm sure the heartless immorality on the part of pet food executives was strictly due to greed, and in no part contributed to by cost increases occasioned by the unionized labor that are no doubt involved in some part of the process of getting the product from rendering plant to store shelf.

Greed belongs exclsuively to the golfing, polo and child eating set.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I'm sure the heartless immorality on the part of pet food executives was strictly due to greed, and in no part contributed to by cost increases occasioned by the unionized labor that are no doubt involved in some part of the process of getting the product from rendering plant to store shelf.

Don't be obtuse. Greed is greed. It's not a reaction to costs. It's a desire to make money.

And the problem is that unregulated Chinese companies dump melamine (as in furniture) as a filler in pet food to make it appear to have more protein. They then sell it here. Because these business activities are essentially unregulated, there or here, there is melamine-laced pet food killing pets all over the country.

Doubtless you'll try again to blame this on unions, instead of the predictable combination of greed and the lack of appropriate regulation.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Doubtless you'll try again to blame this on unions, instead of the predictable combination of greed and the lack of appropriate regulation.

Personally, I blame the goddamned Teamsters. If it wasn't for them, Alpo* wouldn't have to have to iutsource their kibble production to factories manned kids and prisoners in Red China.

Sebby, I think that you can blame cost overruns on the Big Dig and the pension surcharge for American cars on the unions, but poisoned pet food from China? Dude.

*or whoever

[Tyrone Slothrop]

More on poisoned pet food, except that I don't see the part about how the unions are to blame. I also don't see the part about how the FDA is over-regulating this market, but maybe Sebby can explain that.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
More on poisoned pet food, except that I don't see the part about how the unions are to blame. I also don't see the part about how the FDA is over-regulating this market, but maybe Sebby can explain that.

Clearly, you'd don't understand much about unions. The whole pet food thing is the fault of the teacher's union.

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Competent dedicated professionals will never stay in the govt because the govt cannot pay them what they are worth and has a structure which frustrates any initiative or change in favor of "what's best for all."

I'm not sure about this - I have worked for at least two judicial officers* in my time who were as good or better than anyone I've ever seen on the outside. They weren't being paid what they were worth (and I was mortified that my first year salary was more than what either of them were paid) nor were they getting the ego stroking gratification of a lifetime Article III appointment, but they thought their jobs were worth doing.

Oh, and Teddy Roosevelt was not busting trusts in the 19th Century. Not Bob has my proxy on that stuff.

*sorry to be vague - if Hank finds out I used to be a janitor in the Western District of Arkansas my cover will be well and truly blown.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ironweed
I'm not sure about this - I have worked for at least two judicial officers* in my time who were as good or better than anyone I've ever seen on the outside. They weren't being paid what they were worth (and I was mortified that my first year salary was more than what either of them were paid) nor were they getting the ego stroking gratification of a lifetime Article III appointment, but they thought their jobs were worth doing.

Oh, and Teddy Roosevelt was not busting trusts in the 19th Century. Not Bob has my proxy on that stuff.

*sorry to be vague - if Hank finds out I used to be a janitor in the Western District of Arkansas my cover will be well and truly blown.

the Little Rock Double Tree, down there on President Clinton Blvd, the cabs and passengers make their own connections- no regulation.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Competent dedicated professionals will never stay in the govt because the govt cannot pay them what they are worth and has a structure which frustrates any initiative or change in favor of "what's best for all."

Obviously they should be paid more.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Er, I meant, judges...

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=3119381&page=1

This story quotes Philip Howard, the lawyer who wrote "The Death of Common Sense," possibly the greatest anti-abusurd-regulation book in history. You can call me a crank all you like, but please read this man's book. It is simply fucking amazing, and very evenhanded.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Obviously they should be paid more.

You mean run it like a corporation? Wouldn't that require a "survival of the fittest" form of capitalism incompatible with how you say we should run a govt? Wouldn't that corrupt our blessed, sacred govt? Wouldn't that would require firing others to cut costs?

Have you any experience with firing a federal empoloyee? You can sooner cleave barnacles from a hull with a plastic picnic knife.

Or are you suggesting we just pay everyone in the govt a whole lot more. That would surely make it more efficient, wouldn't it?

I'm obtuse? You're absurd.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Clearly, you'd don't understand much about unions. The whole pet food thing is the fault of the teacher's union.

And Hillary Clinton

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ironweed
I'm not sure about this - I have worked for at least two judicial officers* in my time who were as good or better than anyone I've ever seen on the outside. They weren't being paid what they were worth (and I was mortified that my first year salary was more than what either of them were paid) nor were they getting the ego stroking gratification of a lifetime Article III appointment, but they thought their jobs were worth doing.

Oh, and Teddy Roosevelt was not busting trusts in the 19th Century. Not Bob has my proxy on that stuff.

*sorry to be vague - if Hank finds out I used to be a janitor in the Western District of Arkansas my cover will be well and truly blown.

Federal Judges or Magistrates are not at all indicative of the average federal employee and you clearly know that. You also know I'm not talking about them when I talk about the average bureaucrat.

Re Teddy, ha. Nice catch. I was off by a few years.