Politics As Usual

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
BS. Are you bombing a hospital because you don't want to risk the casualities of a Special Forces attack that might capture him, or because he might escape before you can do anything else?

Both. And because the primary nature of target warrants all collateral damage attributed to the attack.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Look hardass -- that number (15 years) roughly coincides with the dissolution of the U.S.S.R. and its Eastern European empire.
Coincidence? You decide.

RR had ridden off into the sunset by then. (The GOP has been shouting "Shane! Come back, Shane! Shane!" ever since.)

S_A_M

Yeah, no kidding. It was like, one day, Gorby just said, I changed my mind and I'm letting all you people go, notwithstanding the last 8 years.

Anyway, rejoice ye Republicans. I not only got Ty to post quotes from RR while applauding, but they are quotes from an extreme Arkansas liberal praising RR effusively.

How ya like them apples?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...157003,00.html

[Spree: Denver Post article on deaths of five Iraqisduring interrogation.]

"Brutal interrogation techniques by U.S. military personnel are being investigated in connection with the deaths of at least five Iraqi prisoners in war-zone detention camps, Pentagon documents obtained by The Denver Post show.

The deaths include the killing in November of a high-level Iraqi general who was shoved into a sleeping bag and suffocated, according to the Pentagon report. The documents contradict an earlier Defense Department statement that said the general died "of natural causes" during an interrogation. Pentagon officials declined to comment on the new disclosure.


***

"In the case of Iraqi Major General Abed Hamed Mowhoush, who headed Saddam Hussein's air force, intelligence officers' role was documented in abuse that soon turned fatal, documents show,

"Mowhoush, considered a "high-priority target," turned himself in for questioning in November, according to documents. After two weeks in custody at an Al Qaim detention facility, northwest of Baghdad, two soldiers with the 66th Military Intelligence Company, slid a sleeping bag over his body, except for his feet, and began questioning him as they rolled him repeatedly from his back to his stomach, the documents show.

"Then, one of the soldiers, an interrogator, sat on Mowhoush's chest and placed his hands over the prisoner's mouth, according to the report: 'During this interrogation, the (general) became non-responsive, medics were called and he was later pronounced dead.' According to the documents, 'The preliminary report lists the cause of death as asphyxia due to smothering and chest compressions.'

"Immediately after Mowhoush's death was reported, U.S. military officials released a statement acknowledging he died during an interview.

"'Mowhoush said he didn't feel well and subsequently lost consciousness,' read the press statement, which is still posted on a Pentagon website. 'The soldier questioning him found no pulse, then conducted CPR and called for medical authorities. According to the on-site surgeon, it appeared Mowhouse died of natural causes.'"


Well, its only natural that you die after being smothered. Apparently, the investigation continues. But really, what the hell? After all, he was just an Iraqi General.

S_A_M

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Both. And because the primary nature of target warrants all collateral damage attributed to the attack.

This end-justifies-the-means stuff is bad juju, both for the sort of principled reasons that S_A_M is suggesting and because it's counterproductive in a practical sense. We don't just want OBL dead, we want a PR victory out of it. Bombing a hospital and announcing later that we've identified his DNA from tissue scraped off a brick in the crater is a much worse way of killing him dead than is sending in the Special Forces to try to bring him out alive, and then trying him.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
How very Wolfowitzian of you, Rambo.

Hey, I heard the job might be opening up soon. Write me a reccomendation?

S_A_M

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Perhaps. But when that building came down a few blocks from me, the age of civilized warfare - in my eyes - had ended. I far from advocate the shedding of innocent blood, but by the same token, a have little to any remorse over it if we accomplish the mission at hand

Edited. Stupidly outable. Sorry.

Slave, I think if we dropped a whole bunch of nukes throughout the Middle East so that we killed absolutely everyone, the mission at hand would be accomplished. This would be good? Bad?

I really am afraid that irrational freaks like you are going to fuck things up so much for our country that at some point in the future we will have to bend over for the rest of the world to get them to do something we want or need. I'm thinking we're going to turn into Great Britain after the fucked up and lost the empire b/c they did stupid shit that produced, e.g., Ghandi.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...157003,00.html

[Spree: Denver Post article on deaths of five Iraqisduring interrogation.]
The deaths include the killing in November of a high-level Iraqi general who was shoved into a sleeping bag and suffocated, according to the Pentagon report. The documents contradict an earlier Defense Department statement that said the general died "of natural causes" during an interrogation. Pentagon officials declined to comment on the new disclosure.

"Mowhoush, considered a "high-priority target," turned himself in for questioning in November, according to documents. After two weeks in custody at an Al Qaim detention facility, northwest of Baghdad, two soldiers with the 66th Military Intelligence Company, slid a sleeping bag over his body, except for his feet, and began questioning him as they rolled him repeatedly from his back to his stomach, the documents show.

"Then, one of the soldiers, an interrogator, sat on Mowhoush's chest and placed his hands over the prisoner's mouth, according to the report: 'During this interrogation, the (general) became non-responsive, medics were called and he was later pronounced dead.' According to the documents, 'The preliminary report lists the cause of death as asphyxia due to smothering and chest compressions.'


Well, its only natural that you die after being smothered. Apparently, the investigation continues. But really, what the hell? After all, he was just an Iraqi General.

S_A_M

The only tragedy here is if we didn't get whatever information we wanted before he was smothered to death. And that he died a relatively pain-free death. And that we probably didn't get to torture him in front of his kids (or, his kids in front of him -- whichever).

Right, shfm? slave? sgt?

[SlaveNoMore]

ltl/fb
I really am afraid that irrational freaks like you are going to fuck things up so much for our country that at some point in the future...

Ty or Atticus calling me irrational would be insulting, yet understandable, given our constant disagreements and somewhat different worldview.

However, you calling me an irrational freak is akin to Ronald McDonald calling someone a clown.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Ty or Atticus calling me irrational would be insulting, yet understandable, given our constant disagreements and somewhat different worldview.

However, you calling me an irrational freak is akin to Ronald McDonald calling someone a clown.

You need to fix your first sentence/paragraph to include something about how you think they are smart or rational or something. Because I constantly disagree with you and have a somewhat different worldview too.

Or you could just say I'm fat, short and unattractive. Either/or.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
[Gen. Wesley Clark =] an extreme Arkansas liberal

Was this unintentionally funny, or intentionally so? Those adjectives neutralize each other like acid and base.

[SlaveNoMore]

Secret_Agent_Man
The deaths include the killing in November of a high-level Iraqi general who was shoved into a sleeping bag and suffocated, according to the Pentagon report. The documents contradict an earlier Defense Department statement that said the general died "of natural causes" during an interrogation. Pentagon officials declined to comment on the new disclosure

Did he refuse to give up the whereabouts of the rest of his hidden planes?

Buried planes

If not, fuck 'em.

ETA: Snopes will not let me link to their photos

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Did he refuse to give up the whereabouts of the rest of his hidden planes?



If not, fuck 'em.

So if he did give up the whereabouts, it's OK to kill him?

In accord with my interpretation of your attitude.

That picture of you is outable. People will be able to ID you as you walk the streets of NYC.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Did he refuse to give up the whereabouts of the rest of his hidden planes?

If not, fuck 'em.

ETA: Snopes will not let me link to their photos

I've seen the pictures, but that's really funny!

As long as they're buried, what do we care? Does anyone think the resistance is going to dig up up, fly them out of the holes and bomb us? Shee-it.

S_A_M

[OK. I guess we would like to find any missiles attached thereto.]

[SlaveNoMore]

ltl/fb
You need to fix your first sentence/paragraph to include something about how you think they are smart or rational or something. Because I constantly disagree with you and have a somewhat different worldview too.

Yes, but whereas if they are the Dean and Edwards of the party, you are the Lyndon LaRouche.

Or you could just say I'm fat, short and unattractive. Either/or.

I had no idea you were short.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Yes, but whereas if they are the Dean and Edwards of the party, you are the Lyndon LaRouche.

I hope I get to be Edwards. I can't really yell all that well.