Politics As Usual

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by the Spartan
And the damage he did to our intelligence capabilities due to his disdain of the CIA and by extension the damage this did to our defense capabilities offsets anything he did to bolster the military.

This is horseshit as a matter of historical record, but it makes for great agitprop. Explain, Penske, what "damage" did Clinton do to our intelligence capabilities?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
The Heritage Foundation? Why don't you just quote something from the Limbaugh Report?

And two months before a presidential election? Go figure.

Amazing that Bush was able to completely turn military readiness around so quickly in time to invade Afghanistan.

Republicans should not throw stones about military readiness, not with what George Bush is doing to our military. It's so bad that OpFor training units are being sent to Iraq. I would say more, but Hello has my proxy on this one and he should be along any moment now.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Ever wonder what would happen if an American president were confronted with a European (non-WH-pool lapdog) journalist --- the kind who actually press their questions until they're answered, and become confrontational in order to represent the confrontational questions being asked by their readers?

• On the eve of his departure for the European Union-U.S. summit in Ireland late last week, George W. Bush gave a sit-down interview to Irish TV journalist Carole Coleman in the White House Map Room. (Radio Television Eire; video clip may not work with all players)
  
  Unlike American reporters, who lob softball questions Bush can field with prepared, rehearsed answers, Coleman performed as most European broadcast interviewers normally do -- in a naturally engaging, intellectually rigorous, conversational manner. However, Bush bristled at Coleman's questions and interviewing style, about which the White House (which posted a transcript of the session on its Web site) later "lodged an official complaint with the Irish embassy in Washington." (Times; subscription required)
  
  "[T]he majority of our public do not welcome your visit because they're angry over Iraq, they're angry over Abu Ghraib. Are you bothered by what Irish people think?" Coleman asked as the interview began. If such questioning set the encounter's tone, so did Bush's tendency to respond by testily demanding, "Listen ...." At one point he commanded, "Let me finish. Let me finish, please. Please. You ask the questions, and I'll answer them, if you don't mind." (White House transcript)
  
  Reminding Bush that U.S. forces never had found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after toppling Saddam Hussein, Coleman noted, "Mr. President, the world is a more dangerous place today. I don't know whether you can see that or not." Bush replied, incredulously, "Why do you say that?" Sounding defensive, he insisted that subsequent terrorist bombings in Bali, Istanbul and Madrid were not related to his invasion of Iraq. (White House transcript)
  
  Coleman tried to pursue her theme, saying, "But I think there is a feeling that the world has become a more dangerous place because you have taken the focus off al Qaeda and diverted [it to] Iraq. Do you not see that the world is a more dangerous place? I saw four of your soldiers lying dead on ... television the other day ...." (White House transcript)
  
  "Listen, nobody cares more about the death than I do ...," Bush retorted.
  
  And so it went for what, for Bush and his aides, turned out to be an excruciating 15 minutes. "Bush and his media handlers" were "furious" at Coleman, the first Irish reporter in 20 years to land a White House interview with a U.S. president. They bemoaned what they felt had been her "lack of respect." (Times; subscription required)
  
  As a result, "journalists traveling with ... Bush ... in Europe noted," the White House canceled an interview First Lady Laura Bush had been scheduled to do with Radio Television Eire after arriving in Ireland with her husband. (EU Business)

Penske cite.

Do you really think Bali, istanbul and Madrid bombings only occured because of Iraq? Seriously? they got it out of their systems after 9/11 if only we'd have stopped with the ole 12 cruise missiles into a mountain?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Do you really think Bali, istanbul and Madrid bombings only occured because of Iraq? Seriously? they got it out of their systems after 9/11 if only we'd have stopped with the ole 12 cruise missiles into a mountain?

Do you really believe that anything we've done in Iraq reduces the likelihood of another Bali, Istanbul or Madrid bombing? Seriously? Do you really think there wasn't another way to squander $200 billion, ~1000 U.S. troops' lives (?), and the good-will of countries around the world that would have done more to stop Al Qaeda?

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Do you really think Bali, istanbul and Madrid bombings only occured because of Iraq? Seriously? they got it out of their systems after 9/11 if only we'd have stopped with the ole 12 cruise missiles into a mountain?

Read the transcript, brainiac. That's not what she said.

• On September the 11th, 2001, we were attacked in an unprovoked fashion. Everybody thought the world was calm.* And then there have been bombings since then -- not because of my response to Iraq. There were bombings in Madrid. There were bombings in Istanbul. There were bombings in Bali. There were killings in Pakistan.
  
  Q Indeed, Mr. President, and I think Irish people understand that.

*Ooops. I guess he didn't read the talking points closely enough. Guess the "blame Clinton --- he alone shoulda seen this coming after Cole/WTC1/embassies" nonsense is over.

[the Spartan]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
This is horseshit as a matter of historical record, but it makes for great agitprop. Explain, Penske, what "damage" did Clinton do to our intelligence capabilities?

Res ipsa locquiter:

egregious indifference to America's security needs was the rule during Bill Clinton's two terms as president.

Mr. Woolsey's personal account of the Clinton White House's repugnance for those in intelligence is jarring. Despite being handpicked by Mr. Clinton to head the CIA, the president did not meet even once with Mr. Woolsey privately about any security issues during his first two years in office. After Osama bin Laden's attack on hotels housing U.S. Marines in Yemen in December 1992 and the first World Trade Center bombing in February 1993, it was clear that the United States was being targeted by terrorists. Because of the new threat, Mr. Woolsey went out of his way to be accessible to the new president. In fact, he made the trip from CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, to the White House every day for the president's intelligence briefing, for which Mr. Woolsey's staff had prepared detailed reports. It had been the habit of previous presidents to welcome the CIA director into the Oval Office for the briefings so that complex issues could be clarified and advice given. Mr. Clinton, however, left Mr. Woolsey cooling his heels outside in the hall each time.

The humiliating treatment of the nation's top intelligence expert reflected Mr. Clinton's cavalier lack of respect for the dangers facing the world's only superpower. The impertinence of the White House toward Mr. Woolsey reached the level of casting the CIA director as an object of ridicule. As Mr. Miniter reports: "When a small plane accidentally crashed on the White House lawn in 1994, West Wing staffers joked that it was Woolsey trying to see the president." The planes that crashed into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center on Sept. 11 — and the fact that the attacks came as a total surprise to America's intelligence community — were made vastly more likely by Mr. Clinton's policy of neglect toward intelligence officers and their role in defending the nation.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

If this is the best you can do, throw in the towel now.

Despite being handpicked by Mr. Clinton to head the CIA, the president did not meet even once with Mr. Woolsey privately about any security issues during his first two years in office.

Note how the word "privately" is used as a qualifier to give an misleading impression. So what if they didn't meet privately?

After Osama bin Laden's attack on hotels housing U.S. Marines in Yemen in December 1992 and the first World Trade Center bombing in February 1993, it was clear that the United States was being targeted by terrorists.

Other sources, like Clarke's book and Ghost Wars make it clear that Clinton understood this as well as anyone. In fact, maybe better than Woolsey, whose primary effort during this time was to redirect resources towards signals intelligence -- something that helps us tremendously with Russia and China, but not so much with Al Qaeda.


Because of the new threat, Mr. Woolsey went out of his way to be accessible to the new president. In fact, he made the trip from CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, to the White House every day for the president's intelligence briefing, for which Mr. Woolsey's staff had prepared detailed reports.


Whoop de do. Nothing here so far.

It had been the habit of previous presidents to welcome the CIA director into the Oval Office for the briefings so that complex issues could be clarified and advice given. Mr. Clinton, however, left Mr. Woolsey cooling his heels outside in the hall each time.

Clinton was notoriously late. BFD.

The humiliating treatment of the nation's top intelligence expert reflected Mr. Clinton's cavalier lack of respect for the dangers facing the world's only superpower.

There's no humiliation here. Clinton was late for everything, as everyone in D.C. well know. Hell, he was behind schedule at a book-signing in Berkeley the other day, but no one was in the paper saying they were humiliated by it. Although it should be noted that Woolsey used his personality to piss off all sorts of people, including the Republicans in Congress responsible for his budget.

The impertinence of the White House toward Mr. Woolsey reached the level of casting the CIA director as an object of ridicule. As Mr. Miniter reports: "When a small plane accidentally crashed on the White House lawn in 1994, West Wing staffers joked that it was Woolsey trying to see the president."

Res ipsa loquitur indeed.

The planes that crashed into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center on Sept. 11 — and the fact that the attacks came as a total surprise to America's intelligence community — were made vastly more likely by Mr. Clinton's policy of neglect toward intelligence officers and their role in defending the nation.

I guess the great thing about The Washington Times is that even talentless hacks who can't be troubled to put together a hit piece on Clinton that follows logically from one sentence to the next get a salary and a roof over their heads so that they're aren't roaming the streets and bothering tourists. God bless America, a land of opportunity for all of us, even megalomaniacal Korean religious figures with enough money to buy their own printing presses. Nice job bolding some of these quotes -- it tends to draw attention away from the dreck surrounding them.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
blah blah yada yada blah

Many years later, as he faced the firing squad, Colonel Aureliano Buendia was to remember that distant afternoon when his father took him to discover ice.

I absolutely hated that fucking book.

[the Spartan]

Nice job bolding some of these quotes -- it tends to draw attention away from the dreck surrounding them.

Thanks. Its another reason why I am beloved.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
...your moment of Zen:



Colin Powell performs Village People song in Jakarta.

This is fannnnntastic.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I absolutely hated that fucking book.

Sorry. For you, I'll change it.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Sorry. For you, I'll change it.

Thank you.

As a reciprocal gesture, I shall take down my Avatar.

eta: I've never actually made it all the way through Vineland

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
All we remember is your overweight minions down in Fla. methodically eliminating absentee military votes in 2000.

Looks like we may not be forced to such draconian measures this time around, since there's a chance that Floridians who have a name similar to that of a felon may get their votes counted.

There might still be some collateral damage though. The Minions Local 427 are probably going to picket the convention over the loss of their plum gig. Their sheer girth could make it pretty tough for Kerry to cross without having to push an ass-cheek or two out of his way. I doubt he has the grace to handle that well.

[the Spartan]

"Cigar little girl?

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
And two months before a presidential election? Go figure.

Amazing that Bush was able to completely turn military readiness around so quickly in time to invade Afghanistan.

Republicans should not throw stones about military readiness, not with what George Bush is doing to our military. It's so bad that OpFor training units are being sent to Iraq. I would say more, but Hello has my proxy on this one and he should be along any moment now.

Well thank you Brother Ty. Is the meeting still on for 11:00 Sunday morning, while the brainwashed masses are praying to their false Gods?

As for the training units, I was shocked when it was really, really impressed on me what was happening here.

I don't offer the following article for any editoria viewpoint. The facts contained therein are accurate. Anyone here is invited to contact anyone, and I mean anyone, in the military to see why this might be considered significant.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...4/100ctzvm.asp

(1st battalion, 509th Infantry in LA is going to Iraq)...

Basically, this was an operational force that was being used to simulate insurgents and Iraqis for the last few years. It appears that the new Louisiana "insurgents" will be people from all over the Illinois National Guard, mostly out south of Chicago.

And yeah, just to add to the story, at least one of the National Guard companies is being activated for the second full 12 month+ tour since 9/11.

Whoa, I sound like I'm agreeing with Ty here!

Before I go on, the Ft. Irwin units are heading the same way.

I don't agree to the nth degree about how this should be interpreted, but I do know that our military is stretched thinner than comfortable. I also know that Rummy and his hand-picked group of yes-men at the top of the Pentagon are about the only people in the Defense Department to be saying that the military is big enough. Just about everyone else, including Congress, is trying to increase the active duty army by at least one division. The hope is that they will also increase National Guard and Reserve forces by 2 divisions through the use of add'l incentives, but its a bit unlikely under the current regime.