Politics As Usual

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by baltassoc
I think I agree with you here, somewhat.

I was shocked when so many Congressional members from Texas voted against NAFTA, for example. It seemed very principled (if, well, stupid), since clearly Texas stood to gain more than any other state from free trade with Mexico.

But I'm not talking about pork (and I don't really consider NAFTA pork). Republican reps from the South will fight just as hard as any to keep an unneeded army base open in their constituency. I'm talking about Republicans running on promises to eliminate all welfare in districts with double digit unemployment rates (and winning by huge majorities). I'm talking about running on school vouchers in communities that have failing public schools and no possible way to create viable private ones (school choice only really works where you have enough people in a close enough area such that one can have more than one choice).

These may or may not be the right choices for America as a whole, but they sure are dumb for the person pulling the lever.

Don't disagree, but I also agree that you're not talking about pork.

[Gin Rummy]

Originally posted by Not Me
Have you spent much time in the south? And I don't mean in the strip bars in Atlanta.

I am on break from my President Reagan Memorial vigil in the nations capital and missed all of you liberal putzes.

For what it is worth Hoo-Ha-girl, I imagine most of the liberal riff raff spend a great deal of time in the dens of inequity like stripping bars.

Over the years I have observed the pervertic behavior of voyeuristicism in many if not most of the left wing cranks I have had the displeasure of being acquainted with. It is consistent with the fact that liberals will tend to make very bad choices in most every area of their lives, whether it be economic, political, career or moral and unfortunately, given our great constitution, there is little the Right can do about it but wait for the day of judgement where such behavior will be righteously addressed by the warrior Christ.

Believe it or not, given the vacuous moral nature of the left wing a rendezvous with a stripper or a whore can be artificially fulfilling to their empty souls. Very little responsibility or respect in this crowd.

My admonition is watch out, cuz while it the temporally fleeting pleasures of the flesh may falsely satisfy your wicked needs today, the truth will probably come out months or years later. And it will burn.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Dave
Not to sidetrack this discussion, but Baltimore is part of the South?

Da (shopped at a Winn-Dixie once) ve

Well, the Mason Dixon line is about 40 miles north, so technically, yes.

On the other hand, Maryland did fight on the the side of the North in the War Between the States.*

Also, Maryland has not really exhibited the Southern Democrat phenomena that is the topic of conversation from which we are digressing. While we only recently elected our first Republican governor in a long while (since Spiro Agnew, actually), this is because the state is actually pretty liberal, and so is the new governor.

Compared to Detroit, it's definitely the South, but I wouldn't rest on my current residence to establish my Southern cred. I grew up further South.

*Note the use of the proper name. The War of Northern Agression is generally considered a little too strident. And the yankee name, the Civil War, assumes the outcome.**

** This was actually my first lesson in semantics, back in 8th grade American History. My very intellegent, very Southern teacher made me write a paper on what was assumed behind these three names. It's facinating stuff. And Hank, before you go there, the papers I wrote on voting patterns were upper level undergraduate work.

[Gin Rummy]

A couple of pics from the pennsylvania avenue yesterday (I wonder if the liberal censors here will delete these?):

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Don't disagree, but I also agree that you're not talking about pork.

BTW, you still mod of the Southern Board?

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by baltassoc
But I'm not talking about pork (and I don't really consider NAFTA pork). Republican reps from the South will fight just as hard as any to keep an unneeded army base open in their constituency. I'm talking about Republicans running on promises to eliminate all welfare in districts with double digit unemployment rates (and winning by huge majorities). I'm talking about running on school vouchers in communities that have failing public schools and no possible way to create viable private ones (school choice only really works where you have enough people in a close enough area such that one can have more than one choice).

These may or may not be the right choices for America as a whole, but they sure are dumb for the person pulling the lever.

I have a crush on you. Can you confirm it's a mancrush? (Avatars can be deceptive, and I've been burned before.)

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Gin Rummy
My admonition is watch out, cuz while it the temporally fleeting pleasures of the flesh may falsely satisfy your wicked needs today, the truth will probably come out months or years later. And it will burn.

Does this mean they will be going to hell, or just a reference to gonorrhea?

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Not Me
Your secretary is a southerner or you went to strip bars in Atlanta? Have you ever lived anywhere in the south?

The ball that floated by you a few posts ago was an attempt at understatement. (I've also written about this elsewhere on the boards, so I assumed this was more or less general knowledge).

To the extent that it matters to have this discussion, I was born, raised, and went to school in, the South. You? We can compare our dirt-road cred if need be.

The reason that I found your declaration silly was the proposition that Southerners' love of God and country (while certainly true in itself) somehow overpowers their taste for pork, and that they're less interested in pork than in other areas of the country. Ain't so.

Were it so, we wouldn't have Southern politicians so skilled at, and dedicated to, acquiring it for their constitutents, and trumpeting it to the heavens. Strom Thurmond is one prototypical example:

Thurmond's effrontery at pork barrel politics is almost breathtaking. After voting against almost all federal legislation aimed at improving health care, education, housing, and other domestic spending programs not involving the military, Thurmond sought every federal dollar he could get for South Carolina, with a press release seeking credit for every grant made to the state.

Were we so inclined, we could Google and read about the space center and facilities in Houston and in Alabama, the freakin' TVA, the naval base in Charleston (may she rest in peace), and any other number of examples of pork. Whether in the form of a barrel stuffed with federal dollars, or pulled and doused in vinagar on a bun, Southerners like their pork as much as anyone.

Gattigap

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Gattigap
To the extent that it matters to have this discussion, I was born, raised, and went to school in, the South. You? We can compare our dirt-road cred if need be.

Dang, thought I was talking to a guy from Boston. Whose the liberal from Boston? Is that GGG?

I was born elsewhere (Dad in military), but raised and went to school in the south. Live in CA now.

Originally posted by Gattigap
The reason that I found your declaration silly was the proposition that Southerners' love of God and country (while certainly true in itself) somehow overpowers their taste for pork,

I think this is so.



[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gattigap
Were it so, we wouldn't have Southern politicians so skilled at, and dedicated to, acquiring it for their constitutents, and trumpeting it to the heavens. Strom Thurmond is one prototypical example: I didn't say they weren't interested in it at all.

Originally posted by Gattigap
Were we so inclined, we could Google and read about the space center and facilities in Houston and in Alabama, the freakin' TVA, the naval base in Charleston (may she rest in peace), and any other number of examples of pork. Whether in the form of a barrel stuffed with federal dollars, or pulled and doused in vinagar on a bun, Southerners like their pork as much as anyone.

Liking pork doesn't mean that they don't vote more for bigger principles. I didn't say that they hated pork barrel spending.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by baltassoc
BTW, you still mod of the Southern Board?

Heh. No, after the Tiannamen Square incident on FL, he's retired and sipping bourbon at Rowan Oak.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Gattigap
pulled and doused in vinagar on a bun,

You forgot the hot sauce.

[Not Me]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBLBPU0BVD.html

• Lutheran Minister Who Said God Doesn't Exist Is Suspended Again
  
  COPENHAGEN, Denmark (AP) - The Lutheran minister who proclaimed last year there was no God or afterlife was suspended for a second time Thursday for ignoring church orders not to repeat those beliefs from the pulpit.
  
  Helsingoer Bishop Lise-Lotte Rebel suspended the Rev. Thorkild Grosboell, pastor of Taarbaek, and handed his case to the government "requesting that it take the necessary steps."
  
  In Denmark, Lutheran ministers are employed by the state and only the government can fire them and only with a recommendation from their presiding bishop. Rebel oversees the diocese that includes Taarbaek, a small town north of Copenhagen.
  
  Grosboell has been under Rebel's strict supervision since he first was suspended after a May 2003 interview in which he said "there is no heavenly God, there is no eternal life, there is no resurrection."
  
  About 85 percent of Danes belong to the state Evangelical Lutheran Church, though just 5 percent attend church services regularly.
  
  Grosboell eventually retracted his statement and apologized for what Rebel had termed "provocative" remarks. His suspension was lifted.
  
  Yet, he repeated those beliefs in past weeks.
  
  "I expected he would change his mind," the bishop said in a statement Thursday.
  
  Grosboell "again has spoken in a strongly provocative, hurting and confusing way," Rebel said.
  
  She cited an undated but recent sermon in which Grosboell allegedly said, "God had abdicated in favor of his son, hence in our favor. Therefore there is no longer a heavenly guarantee or an interfering might, there is only the godly kingdom (on earth) that is achieved by us and between us. So if it fails, there is nothing."
  
  The sermon was "clearly incompatible with the state church's faith," the bishop said.
  
  Rebel concluded that Grosboell "had disregarded the state church's basis for belief, undermined his duty's respect and confidence, disregarded the official order (and) caused a deep confusion about the state church."
  
  Grosboell responded by saying he was puzzled.
  
  "Basically, I can only say that I still don't understand what she means and talks about," he told The Associated Press, adding there was "nothing concrete" in her order. He did not deny giving the sermon.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Not Me
Liking pork doesn't mean that they don't vote more for bigger principles. I didn't say that they hated pork barrel spending.

No, you said that they like the Republican plan for America as much as, and probably more than, pork barrel spending.

If we wish to take the discussion beyond the "well, I just think so" level, I'm all ears if you have an idea for how to measure it, other than your original reference to sacrificing pork in pursuit of these loftier goals.

The grasses are still flattened from this well-trod trail, but as one example, Thurmond switched from Dem to Rep, so maybe it was his Republican Plan for America that convinced people to start voting for him (whoops! continue voting for him.) Or, maybe it was his legendary attention to his consituents, and his skill at obtaining pork.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I have a crush on you. Can you confirm it's a mancrush? (Avatars can be deceptive, and I've been burned before.)

I can confirm I am a man. I'm sure Hank will chime in that while he believe I may be a male, he's seen no evidence that I'm really what you'd call a man.

That's okay, because I can post his shit up all day and cram his week ass shots back down his throat.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Not Me
Why are you still talking about panties on heads?

Y'know, you've said that phrase a thousand times, but I have yet to see an article from any newsworthy source (Rush doesn't count) saying that "panties on heads" was the limit of what US soldiers did at Abu Ghraib...... or even that they used this method of interrogation at all.

So, cite please. And I'll match that cite with the cites about the torturing to death of a uniformed Iraqi officer (uniformed meaning undoubtedly entitled to the protections of the GC) -- y'know, the one the Army first classifed as "natural causes" (I guess it is entirely natural that, if you are bound and gagged in a sleeping bag and beaten on for a few hours, you'll die. That's probably what they meant).


And one more question -- one that I'll keep asking until the Repubs here start answering it -- what would your reaction have been if Pfc Jessica Lynch had been stripped naked, gagged with her own panties, and dragged by a leash through the streets of Baghdad? Fraternity prank, or evidence of Iraqi barbarity?