Making Baby Jesus Cry

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
In the same way that the US must have some blame for the events of 9/11?

I'm pretty sure he meant more in the way that the US must share in some of the blame for the car bombings in Baghdad. Or perhaps in the same way the US had to share in some of the blame for the Battle of Ticonderoga.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I don't think Balt is anti-semitic either, but I do think that the leftists may have slipped him some kool-ade.

I have never liked the term anti-semitic. It is to sterile. It is not unpleasant enough for the concept it is representing. I prefer there term ignorant bigot.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by sgtclub
In the same way that the US must have some blame for the events of 9/11?

I don't think that is a fair link. To the extent the US may be thought to have some blame for the attacks of 9/11, the link is much, much more abstract (to the point of being essentially meaningless).

Conservatives (like others in other contexts) seem to mistake caution with blame with regard to the 9/11 attacks. By analogy, compare anti-rape activists who fight over "blaming" a victim for wearing provocative clothing: a short dress is certainly no excuse for a rape. At the same time, ignoring the effect may be dangerous. In a less politically charged analogy, a man wearing a Rolex in the projects is not at fault for being robbed, but it may have perhaps been a wiser decision to leave the bling at home. Likewise, US policies (both official foreign policies and incidental US actions such as the exportation of our cultural norms through media dominance) are no excuse for terrorist action. But understanding the causal relationship may be key to preventing further attacks in the future.

But all of this is a bit different from Israel, where the cycle of violence tends to be immediate and direct: stone throwing is followed by rubber bullets is followed by Molotov cocktails is followed by real bullets is followed by suicide bombers is followed by airstrikes.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Are you talking about how the clinton Administration learned of Atta's cell but Reno's wall prevented any action from being taking?

Hank, be fair, it was the Gorelick wall, which Jamie Gorelick attempted to cover up at the 911 hearings and which should have disqualified her from sitting on the panel and certainly lessens the validity of its findings. As I understand it, Hillary was instrumental in Gorelick's rise to power.

Could it be that the real movers behind 911 were the RedChinese?

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Spanky
In 861 the ruler of the Khasars (Caspian Sea to Kiev) converted, and had his entire nation convert to Judaism. It has been alleged that the European Jews (the Ashkenazi) are really descendents of the Khazar conversion and therefore their conflict with the locals in Israel is an ethnic dispute. In addition, they have no real blood tie to the Palenstian lands. I have no idea how valid that is.

Other than Christian Identity sects or those who like to post at such wonderful sites as jewwatch.org, I am not aware of any mainstream groups that believe this to be correct.

aV

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Or perhaps in the same way the US had to share in some of the blame for the Battle of Ticonderoga.

No offence, but only you and Bilmore go back far enough to remember that one.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by baltassoc
But all of this is a bit different from Israel, where the cycle of violence tends to be immediate and direct: stone throwing is followed by rubber bullets is followed by Molotov cocktails is followed by real bullets is followed by suicide bombers is followed by airstrikes.

What do you make of the Israeli pullout this weekend?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
I have never liked the term anti-semitic. It is to sterile. It is not unpleasant enough for the concept it is representing. I prefer there term ignorant bigot.

How about jew-hater? that is viscerally offensive and yet accurately describes the members of the former Nazi party of WWII Germany, a broad swath of the populaces of the middle east and France.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by andViolins
Other than Christian Identity sects or those who like to post at such wonderful sites as jewwatch.org, I am not aware of any mainstream groups that believe this to be correct.

aV

I actually heard this theory at Paletinian-Israeli forum at Stanford University. At the time it seemed a little funny to me because I believe, but again am not sure, that there were substantial jewish ghettos in most major European cities prior to 861. Specifically in Rome, Paris and London (I think the jews were kicked out of Engand in the 1200s). However, at the forum, no one really disputed it. But of course, being Stanford, that is not surprizing.

[sgtclub]

• BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraqi politicians agreed Monday on a draft constitution but decided to put off two key issues - women's rights and whether Kurds might someday secede - so the document could be submitted to parliament by a midnight deadline, two Shiite officials said.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050815/D8C0E9900.html

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Clinton pushed a peace plan that likely would have assured Israel's destruction. His motivation was his legacy, not Israel. The leaders of Likud and Labour made a calculated and probably nauseating decision in no small part because the US was pushing it and to some extent Israel's survival depends on us.

Republicans pushed peace plans even less favorable to Israel. Why don't you attack Eisenhower (who leaned on the French and British to cut and run from Suez and leave the Israelis in the lurch in 1956), Nixon (who had to be browbeaten by Kissinger into resupplying the IDF in 1973 during the Yom Kippur War, and whose Rogers Plan was met with much joy in Tel Aviv), and Bush I (whose administration actually first met with the PLO)? The GOP attitude towards Israel and the Jews was famously noted by James A. Baker III: "Fuck them -- they didn't vote for us."

Originally posted by Penske_Account
so any effourt to come to a peaceful resolution of the War on Terror will involve the US have negotiated discussions with bin Laden?

Nice try. A more comparable analogy would be to Northern Ireland -- peace negotiations were meaningless until the British Goverment started to talk to Sinn Fein and the IRA.

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I look at the article but reality caues me to pause on any thought that the US was not the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

It's not really discussed in the article, which focuses more on the misrule of Arafat in the Palestine Authority controlled areas.

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Unlike Begin, Arafat never stopped using terrorism as his primary tool.

Yeah, but that's because his side won.

I think that many think that the IRA never stopped using terrorism, either, but Northern Ireland seems to be a lot further down the road to peace than anyone would have thought possible 10 years ago.

At any rate, Arafat's death makes it more likely that some rapparoachment between Israel and the Palestinians will take place.

[sgtclub]

Howard Dean on Face the Nation:

• "It looks like today, and this could change, as of today it looks like women will be worse off in Iraq than they were when Saddam Hussein was president of Iraq."

http://washtimes.com/national/20050814-115425-7424r.htm

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by baltassoc


But all of this is a bit different from Israel, where the cycle of violence tends to be immediate and direct: stone throwing is followed by rubber bullets is followed by Molotov cocktails is followed by real bullets is followed by suicide bombers is followed by airstrikes.

Pretending there is an equivalency is offensive. There is no cycle. Terrorists from inside and outside Israel criminally kill Israeli citizens in the name of treasonous insurrection. Israel takes appropriate self-defensive measures.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by sgtclub

• BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraqi politicians agreed Monday on a draft constitution but decided to put off two key issues - women's rights and whether Kurds might someday secede - so the document could be submitted to parliament by a midnight deadline, two Shiite officials said.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050815/D8C0E9900.html

Good for them. Don't want to let the women get too uppity. Could lead to the totalitarian rule internet boards for Iraqi lawyers.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
How about jew-hater? that is viscerally offensive and yet accurately describes the members of the former Nazi party of WWII Germany, a broad swath of the populaces of the middle east and France.

jew-hater works. Why do you think it is "viscerally offensive"?. The only problem with the word hate is that lots of people hate a lot of things but don't necessarily want to destroy or kill them. Someone could hate the jews but not necessarily wanted them to be exterminated. The Nazi and their sympathizers were beyond hate and into a realm of psychosis.

When I refer to Nazi I wouldn't refer to them as ignorant bigots. I refer to them as Nazi's because I don't think any other word conveys that sort of obsession for genocide.

That is why I think when any group that is not into genoicde is accused of being Nazi's , or being like Nazis, is a misuse of that term.