Waiting for Fitzgerald - Page 320

SlaveNoMore · 11-02-2005, 07:34 PM

Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
I like bacon. I like sausage. I hate pork. I hate pulled pork tenderloin. I hate pork bbq. Where's that leave me?

I-Hop

Spanky · 11-02-2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain
Generally, yes.

But it is a funny kind of business because you measure your success not by money, but by power, and so they are all power mad. Which leads all politicians to play to any old hatemonger who will give them power.

They are not money mad. If they were only out for money they would never take a government job. They are also not hatemongers.

This exchange shows exactly why the left miscalulates and underestimates these people because they think they are just in it for the power, money or because they are vengeful. These people really believe that they are doing the right thing for the country. They have passed up much more lucrative jobs and careers to make the country a better place (at least what they think is a better place).

Until the left understands that these people really believe in what they are doing, they will always understimate them and the power of their message. The Democratics keep saying, well if we just improve our ground game, or we run better campaings, we will win. The Dems are losing the message game, because they really don't have a message and don't understand they are against people that have a message and really believe in it.

Sexual Harassment Panda · 11-02-2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
This is just dumb. No one is a hate monger. These people do what they do for dollars. Politics is a business. The currency is dollars, and the chips are rube voters who are piled by crafting the best ideological pitch.

I think you believe Rove and Cheney actually care about an ideological revolution. I don't think they do. There is no "hate" - there is just methodical manipulation of voters to roll back New Deal policies to make a climate favorable to people who sign huge checks for people like Rove and Cheney.

"Hate" is an allegation the Left uses far too much in describiong politicians. Its wrong because it ascribes to those people a level of human feeling they don't have. Its business. Dems, Inc. v. GOP, Inc.

I think irony and its cousin, sarcasm, are complete strangers to you.

sebastian_dangerfield · 11-02-2005, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain
Generally, yes.

But it is a funny kind of business because you measure your success not by money, but by power, and so they are all power mad. Which leads all politicians to play to any old hatemonger who will give them power.

I think that applies to all fields. You have to actually love the game to make the really big bucks, and loving the game means covetting power and beating others.

Me, I just want the money. Hence the yearly "We can't say anything bad about your performance, but there's something amiss with you."

"Yeh, no shit. I don't want to be like you at all. But I want your fucking money."

I can't think of anything I want less than power. Why would you want to play reindeer games with urban twit Napoleons?

sebastian_dangerfield · 11-02-2005, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
I think irony and its cousin, sarcasm, are complete strangers to you.

Rubbish. Thats an after the fact cop-out.

Or maybe not. I didn't read your post in context or in full.

Or did I? Maybe this is a cop out for my lack of eye for your clever sarcasm.

Or maybe not.

sebastian_dangerfield · 11-02-2005, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
They are not money mad. If they were only out for money they would never take a government job. They are also not hatemongers.

This exchange shows exactly why the left miscalulates and underestimates these people because they think they are just in it for the power, money or because they are vengeful. These people really believe that they are doing the right thing for the country. They have passed up much more lucrative jobs and careers to make the country a better place (at least what they think is a better place).

Until the left understands that these people really believe in what they are doing, they will always understimate them and the power of their message. The Democratics keep saying, well if we just improve our ground game, or we run better campaings, we will win. The Dems are losing the message game, because they really don't have a message and don't understand they are against people that have a message and really believe in it.

What message? "I want more money" is the only message I hear from GOP voters. If the Dems gave GOP voters more money, the Dems would win the election.

People don't give a rat's asshole what the govt does spo long as its stays the fuck away from them - particularly their pocketbooks.

Penske_Account · 11-02-2005, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
If you insist on conflating segregation with a women's rights issue, you'll wind up on more ignore lists than even you can tolerate.

They are not analogous for an innumerable number of reasons you very well know.

Roe is unique. Abortion is unique. Nothing is analagous. Thus, the "superprecedent."

this is bullshit. Plessy was wrong. slavery was wrong, but the decision, in context was no less a precedent. For 50 plus years. And Roe could be argued to be just as wrong. If for some cosmic UMC reason the rights of the feti trump the rights of the mother, a lot of innocent feti have had their rights trampled.

Spanky · 11-02-2005, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
What message? "I want more money" is the only message I hear from GOP voters. If the Dems gave GOP voters more money, the Dems would win the election.

People don't give a rat's what the govt does spo long as its stays the fuck away from them - particularly their pocketbooks.

You make it sound like the GOP is just the business community and fiscal conservatives. I really, really, really, wish that were true. But the Republican party is much more than that. You add up the business community and fiscal conservatives and you can't even elect a dog catcher.

Bush, in those debates, kept preaching the same message over and over again. He may have not said it eloquently, but he kept repeating the same message and it really resonated with voters. The vast majority of voters say they though Kerry won the debates but most viewers liked Bush's message.

I have seen focus groups on this. It is amazing how he connected with voters in those debates.

Do you even know what the message was?

sebastian_dangerfield · 11-02-2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
You make it sound like the GOP is just the business community and fiscal conservatives. I really, really, really, wish that were true. But the Republican party is much more than that. You add up the business community and fiscal conservatives and you can't even elect a dog catcher.

Bush, in those debates, kept preaching the same message over and over again. He may have not said it eloquently, but he kept repeating the same message and it really resonated with voters. The vast majority of voters say they though Kerry won the debates but most viewers liked Bush's message.

I have seen focus groups on this. It is amazing how he connected with voters in those debates.

Do you even know what the message was?

I'll defer to your greater knowledge and concede. However, I'll offer this... have the next GOP Prez raise taxes and see if he gets a second term.

Sexual Harassment Panda · 11-02-2005, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
You make it sound like the GOP is just the business community and fiscal conservatives. I really, really, really, wish that were true. But the Republican party is much more than that. You add up the business community and fiscal conservatives and you can't even elect a dog catcher.

Bush, in those debates, kept preaching the same message over and over again. He may have not said it eloquently, but he kept repeating the same message and it really resonated with voters. The vast majority of voters say they though Kerry won the debates but most viewers liked Bush's message.

I have seen focus groups on this. It is amazing how he connected with voters in those debates.

Do you even know what the message was?

"He forgot Poland" ?

Penske_Account · 11-02-2005, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I think we balance rights all the time, even rights that are fundamental even though they are not specifically mentioned in the United States Constitution. And I think Roe is a case balancing the rights of the mother against those of the fetus.

I agree with this. I think the balance is slightly off right now, I also think the arbiter of the test is wrong. It should be in the states. I am not for illegalising abortion, although I imagine in my scenario Utah might make it illegal.

Penske_Account · 11-02-2005, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
Perhaps Penske can have it both ways and enjoy pork yet still reject pork in solidarity with his co-Deists. Pork is a wonderful thing, anyone who denies enjoying pork when they can get it is lying or delusional, but everyone should have to pay for their own pork.

I think we should all join Penske in lobbying against publicly pork until pork ceases to be funded out of general revenues. All other pork is a-OK, of course.

BR(so is pulling the pork, natch)C

2.

SlaveNoMore · 11-02-2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Penske_Account
I agree with this. I think the balance is slightly off right now, I also think the arbiter of the test is wrong. It should be in the states. I am not for illegalising abortion, although I imagine in my scenario Utah might make it illegal.

And NY, CA and MA would give them away for free - like those AOL CD-Roms.

It's beauty of the thing.

Penske_Account · 11-02-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
They are not money mad. If they were only out for money they would never take a government job. They are also not hatemongers.

This exchange shows exactly why the left miscalulates and underestimates these people because they think they are just in it for the power, money or because they are vengeful. These people really believe that they are doing the right thing for the country. They have passed up much more lucrative jobs and careers to make the country a better place (at least what they think is a better place).

Until the left understands that these people really believe in what they are doing, they will always understimate them and the power of their message. The Democratics keep saying, well if we just improve our ground game, or we run better campaings, we will win. The Dems are losing the message game, because they really don't have a message and don't understand they are against people that have a message and really believe in it.

the demos have no principles or moral clarity, so they don't understand it when others exhibit such traits. Its like being in the wilderness all your life and eating with your hands. If you then came to civilisation at the age of 45 and saw utensils, it would be muy confusing.

Penske_Account · 11-02-2005, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
What message? "I want more money" is the only message I hear from GOP voters. If the Dems gave GOP voters more money, the Dems would win the election.

People don't give a rat's asshole what the govt does spo long as its stays the fuck away from them - particularly their pocketbooks.

And my guns.