Missing the Paigow (et al.) [sniff]

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Yes. When it happens to a white man, he gets a 15 minute piece on 48 Hours or Dateline or somesuch. I'm shocked you didn't know this.

I don't watch those shows. But we are not in disagreement, I suppose. If a cute, blonde, toddler beauty queen gets coverage for a decade and the black girl in the South Bronx gets a one-day investigation and a line on page 67 of the paper, I guess I can't expect people to really give a shit about these guys.

TM

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Counterpoint. You get the [white] guy from Virginia who swore up and down he was innocent up until the time they fried him in 1992. Anti-Chair advocates for years lamented the death of an innocent man.

DNA tests earlier this month proved he was guilty as sin.

I don't know, dude. The fact that you can point out some guys in prison who swear they are innocent but, in fact, are guilty does not make me feel a whole lot better about the innocent guys who rot in jail. A public defender friend of mine has a special name for prisoners who swear they are innocent. She calls them "prisoners." But to spend your life in prison because of an overzealous or crooked prosecutor (or even a well-intentioned one who just made a mistake)? Even worse, if at least part of the reason you were rotting in jail was because of your race? That would make me a bitter man. Um, a bitterer man.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by Mr. Man
Yes. How about the guy in Wisconsin who recently was the first person freed in Wisconsin by DNA testing for not committing a rape 15 years ago, only to rape, murder and burn in an oil drum my sister's friend 6 months later? A ringing endorsement for the whole process.

Did he commit the first rape? Because if he didn't (although that's a shitty thing to happen to your sister's friend), I don't understand your point.

TM

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Counterpoint. You get the [white] guy from Virginia who swore up and down he was innocent up until the time they fried him in 1992. Anti-Chair advocates for years lamented the death of an innocent man.

DNA tests earlier this month proved he was guilty as sin.

So that makes it what? Maybe 300 or so to 1? I see your point. Wasn't it Ed Meese who said better 100 innocent men fry than one guilty man go free?

[SlaveNoMore]

ThurgreedMarshall
That, my friend, is not a counterpoint. When people are wrongly accused, wrongly charged and wrongly sentenced, bringing up an example of someone who said he was innocent when he wasn't doesn't exactly mean shit.

If black men weren't seen as guiltier the darker they are and if they weren't interchangeable to so many witnesses and cops, I'd give you some leeway. But until that point comes, suck it long and hard.

TM

Thank you for enlightening us all, Reverend Al.

[SlaveNoMore]

Pretty Little Flower
I don't know, dude. The fact that you can point out some guys in prison who swear they are innocent but, in fact, are guilty does not make me feel a whole lot better about the innocent guys who rot in jail. A public defender friend of mine has a special name for prisoners who swear they are innocent. She calls them "prisoners." But to spend your life in prison because of an overzealous or crooked prosecutor (or even a well-intentioned one who just made a mistake)? Even worse, if at least part of the reason you were rotting in jail was because of your race? That would make me a bitter man. Um, a bitterer man.

If I was a TV exec, I'd come up with a new show based on the simple premise that the criminal justice system is a rigged deck wherein hundreds of innocents get railroaded and go to jail. Until some hero lawyer decides to make a difference.

And I'd hire Kyle McLachlan for the lead.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Thank you for enlightening us all, Reverend Al.

What is the sound of one gauntlet being thrown?

[SlaveNoMore]

taxwonk
I see your point. Wasn't it Ed Meese who said better 100 innocent men fry than one guilty man go free?

I'd argue for 101.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Thank you for enlightening us all, Reverend Al.

Thank you once again for not saying a damn thing to make your case. And extra thanks for the bullshit racial reference.

TM

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
If I was a TV exec, I'd come up with a new show based on the simple premise that the criminal justice system is a rigged deck wherein hundreds of innocents get railroaded and go to jail. Until some hero lawyer decides to make a difference.

And I'd hire Kyle McLachlan for the lead.

And if I was Governor of Illinois, even if I was a corrupt, malevolent SOB, and I was told that over 50% of the men on Death Row in my state had been cleared by DNA evidence or proof of coerced confessions, I'd declare a moratorium on capital punishment.

And then I'd hire Dan Webb to keep my lily-white ass out of prison.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by taxwonk
And then I'd hire Dan Webb to keep my lily-white ass out of prison.

Good call.

TM

[Mr. Man]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Did he commit the first rape? Because if he didn't (although that's a shitty thing to happen to your sister's friend), I don't understand your point.

TM

No, apparently he did not commit the prior crime. My point was that yes, in fact, DNA testing did prove to free a white guy who was incarcerated. The rest was just commentary. Your reading skills must be slipping.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
If I was a TV exec, I'd come up with a new show based on the simple premise that the criminal justice system is a rigged deck wherein hundreds of innocents get railroaded and go to jail. Until some hero lawyer decides to make a difference.

And I'd hire Kyle McLachlan for the lead.

Have it based at the Houston Crime Lab where an independent investigation's second report issued two weeks ago found

“severe and pervasive problems” with the serology and DNA profiling work performed in the Crime Lab during the entire period subject to review, from 1987 through December 2002 when the Crime Lab’s DNA section was closed following an outside inspection.

To date, the investigation has identified major issues in 27 DNA cases analyzed by the Crime Lab in the 1990s and early 2000s, including significant deficiencies in the DNA analysis performed in the cases of three death row inmates – Franklin Dewayne Alix, Juan Carlos Alvarez, and Gilmar Alex Guevara. Specifically, reviews of theCrime Lab’s DNA cases has revealed that the Lab:

• In certain cases, including in a death penalty case, failed to report reliable and potentially exculpatory DNA typing results and instead reported questionable DNA typing results that inculpated the suspect;
• Frequently generated poor quality DNA typing results due to a combination of poor technique and possible contamination;
• Reported misleading statistical information regarding the significance of its DNA profiling results, particularly in cases involving mixtures of bodily fluids from more than one person;
• Failed to use proper controls to guard against, for example, sample mixing and contamination; and
• Failed to perform and document meaningful reviews of the technical work performed by the Lab’s DNA analysts.

Mr. Bromwich’s team also has found very disturbing problems with the Crime Lab’s serology work during the late 1980s and early 1990s. Forensic serology practiced in the Crime Lab involved primarily the use of ABO blood typing techniques to associate or disassociate individuals with evidence. Not surprisingly, almost all of problems the independent investigation found in the Lab’s DNA cases – including inadequate training of analysts, lack of supervisory reviews, failure to report the statistical significance of test results, and failure to use necessary controls – had their
roots in the Lab’s serology work. James R. Bolding, who was the head of the Crime Lab’s DNA section from inception to its closure in 2002, was the Lab’s chief serologist from 1982 until serology was completely supplanted by DNA testing in the early 1990s.

[SlaveNoMore]

ThurgreedMarshall
Thank you once again for not saying a damn thing to make your case. And extra thanks for the bullshit racial reference.

TM

So you can make some universal declaration about how the police, the justice system and society as a whole are all systematically criminally racist - and somehow this makes a case?

And because I point out that you are parroting a Reverend Al platform, I'm now a racist, too?

I could call you Ward Churchill, but then you'd probably call me an indian hater.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
If I was a TV exec, I'd come up with a new show based on the simple premise that the criminal justice system is a rigged deck wherein hundreds of innocents get railroaded and go to jail. Until some hero lawyer decides to make a difference.

And I'd hire Kyle McLachlan for the lead.

If I were a TV exec, I'd come up with a new show based on the simple premise that the criminal justice system is a rigged deck wherein hundreds of innocents get railroaded and go to jail. I would not need to worry about casting, however, as it would be a documentary.