A disgusting vat of filth that no self-respecting intelligent person would wade into.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
I'm sorry, but if you weren't comparing your experience as a poor, oppressed GA to what we did to an innocent prisoner, why exactly did you keep referencing that experience?

If you weren't "in any way" making a comparison, what was your point?

What I was doing was (a) trying to be clever (although this failed miserably - I blame the IQ of the audience) and (b) trying to subtly point out that sleep deprivation IN AND OF ITSELF perhaps does not rise to the level of torture.

Of course being imprisoned wrongfully, in and of itself and without any sleep deprivation, is probably the worst torture on Earth that I can imagine. Adding the sleep deprivation only compounds the misery. I thought that was so evident that it didn't have to be expressly recognized.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Spanky
Sometimes I feel like I live on two different planets than some of the people on this board. I have never heard stories or had experiences with the NHS or the French health care system even close to what you guys went through.

This is why making sweeping conclusions based on limited personal experience is risky.

Sidd – are you sure you weren’t required to pay because somehow you had called in a private doctor?

Yes. Had we been French citizens, we would not have had to pay. He made this very clear.

Ditto for the pharmacy, where 3 prescriptions cost us a whopping 20 bucks.

Note that my insurance carrier gave me the option of going spending about 2 hours filling out forms to get a partial reimbursement of some of that money.

I just thought it was a well settled fact that when anyone used the public health systems in Europe or Japan they always had a bad experience.

I don't know -- I didn't go to the hospital in France. I've seen some pretty unhappy practices in US hospitals, though. Like when I had to take my wife home three times, in the middle of labor, because her contractions weren't "regular enough" to convince the resident that she was really about to give birth.

On the fourth trip to the hospital, when the resident told us to come back only when they got regular (which they never, ever did), or if there was a particular indication of a more urgent situation. At which point, I pulled out a towel on which that particular indicator was quite evident, and said "like this?" -- and they let us stay. Ya' think, maybe, they could've checked for that themselves before throwing us back onto the street?

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by nononono
Oh, and learn to read. With comprehension. I wasn't defending Sgt. Club's anything. I was seconding what he said (because I'd already said it, in essence) about your ridiculous literalness and overseriousness.

Responding twice to the same post -- good indicator of your reliable calmness. Ask ppnyc.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by sgtclub
What I was doing was (a) trying to be clever (although this failed miserably - I blame the IQ of the audience) and (b) trying to subtly point out that sleep deprivation IN AND OF ITSELF perhaps does not rise to the level of torture.

Of course being imprisoned wrongfully, in and of itself and without any sleep deprivation, is probably the worst torture on Earth that I can imagine. Adding the sleep deprivation only compounds the misery. I thought that was so evident that it didn't have to be expressly recognized.

So you were making a stupid point about something irrelevant? Thanks for clarifying.

By this logic, having a prison guard repeatedly shove his penis in a prisoner's ass isn't torture, because you felt fucked in the ass by the GPs at your former firm.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
God fucking damnit. This is what I'm talking about. Every.Fucking.Single.Time. Universal Healthcare is mentioned, the horror stories from all over the world that have absolutely no bearing at all on the United States come out.

As I said, quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Spanky
Universal health care would be nice, but if it means becoming more like any of these other systems, that would be a huge mistake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason why people bring it up, is because most policy discussion I have attended about health care there is always some idiot extolling the virtues of some European or Canadian system and how we should be more like them. I attend a hearing before the California Senate and at leats three idiots got up and started mouthing off about how great the NHS was. Like I said, if we can set up a UHS that is nothing like the European or Japanese models then fine.

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan Start giving your Medicare horror stories and then I'll start listening to your moaning and groaning. Even better, start giving me your VA horror stories (and believe me, there are plenty), and I'll give a listen. And then I'll point out that because of the VA's electronic health records, it has some of the best care you can get anywhere. (see also the peer reviewed articles).

And people in the UK are healthier than people in the US, even taking socioeconomic status into account.

See when you start talking about how healthy people in the UK are, it makes me nervous about messing with our system. The people in the UK are probably healthier because they eat better and are less obese, not because they receive better medical care. I used to live in Silverlake in LA and ended up going to the emergency room at LA County General downtown. I heard stories it was like a MASH unit because of the gang problems, and an awful place, but I went there after the South Surrey hosptial and the place was like paradise compared to south surrey. Yes I had to wait two hours, and only saw a resident who was overworked, but at least he spoke English and he seemed to care about my well being. He used only packaged sterile instruments and seemed very competant. And the place was spotless compared to any hospital I had been in Europe. We should try and make our health care system but the knee jerk reaction should be, if this is how they do it in England, France or Japan, then we should not do it that way.

The system could definitely be improved, but it could also be a hell of a lot worse. One way to insure we do not "reform" it downward is to avoid all the mistakes these other countries have made.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
So now you stand with Clinton? Good to know.

If you can't beat em, join em. I running wing all over town with Bubba.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
There's been a cockophony of people close to the administration hyping the "surge" over the last few days; sometimes you don't need a weatherman to know which way the Bush blows.

Oh, sure. And next you'll say he planned to invade Iraq even while he was saying that war would be a last resort to eliminate their WMDs.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Spanky
In any event, it seems to me that no one has gotten the system right. So if we do change our health system none of those systems should be used as a model.

I can give you equally bad examples in the US system. Would you go to your local county or city hospital or clinics (assuming that they're unaffiliated with a local medical school) if you had a choice? An IHS clinc?

My rugby accident story may not have been as happy (and given the hangover the next morning, it's not THAT happy of a story) if I had walked the extra two miles to the hospital emergency room. I just was lucky enough to have stopped at my GPs office first to ask if they could stitch me up because they were on the way to the hospital. If you'd ended up at another clinic for your doctor's note, maybe you would have had a different experience.

Again, I and most of the other people who have considered giving serious, serious thought to universal coverage understand and appreciate that we will never, ever end up with any sort of system that is already in existence elsewhere in the world. Does anyone honestly think that the insurance companies are going to roll over and give up the healthcare market? Whatever system is developed will have to overlap with the current system in some way. Generally the plans I've seen have involved expanding Medicare or Medicaid in some fashion or looking closer at the VA system.

[LessinSF]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
He has enough of a brain not to take harsh words on this board personally. Unlike certain cunts I know.

I only ask because I'm a real cunt in spring
You can rent me by the hour
I know all about the ugly pilgrim thing
Entertainers bring May flowers

[nononono]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Responding twice to the same post -- good indicator of your reliable calmness. Ask ppnyc.

Okay, baby. You're right. I should have just called you nasty things to prove my calmness. Clearly, the hysteria implied by the evenness of my posts is upsetting you.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Spanky


See when you start talking about how healthy people in the UK are, it makes me nervous about messing with our system. The people in the UK are probably healthier because they eat better and are less obese, not because they receive better medical care. I used to live in Silverlake in LA and ended up going to the emergency room at LA County General downtown. I heard stories it was like a MASH unit because of the gang problems, and an awful place, but I went there after the South Surrey hosptial and the place was like paradise compared to south surrey. Yes I had to wait two hours, and only saw a resident who was overworked, but at least he spoke English and he seemed to care about my well being. He used only packaged sterile instruments and seemed very competant. And the place was spotless compared to any hospital I had been in Europe. We should try and make our health care system but the knee jerk reaction should be, if this is how they do it in England, France or Japan, then we should not do it that way.

The system could definitely be improved, but it could also be a hell of a lot worse. One way to insure we do not "reform" it downward is to avoid all the mistakes these other countries have made.

I'm not saying that NHS is the model we should adopt. I, rather the researchers are saying that the people in England are better off health wise than the people in the US. Certainly the health care systems play a role in that among other things.

LA County General is staffed by USC. Of course you're going to get good care there. It's like going to Ben Taub here, which is the county hospital staffed by Baylor and gets all the gruesome car crashes and gunshot wounds.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Unlike certain c*** I know.

Must we continue to use that word? Is there a reference I am missing or something?

For some reason, I find that word particularly hateful.

[nononono]

Originally posted by Adder
Must we continue to use that word? Is there a reference I am missing or something?

For some reason, I find that word particularly hateful.

No, no reference.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
So you were making a stupid point about something irrelevant? Thanks for clarifying.

By this logic, having a prison guard repeatedly shove his penis in a prisoner's ass isn't torture, because you felt fucked in the ass by the GPs at your former firm.

OK. Now your just arguing to argue, or because your wife bitchslapped you this morning, or for some other reason. Enjoy.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Spanky
As I said, quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Spanky
Universal health care would be nice, but if it means becoming more like any of these other systems, that would be a huge mistake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason why people bring it up, is because most policy discussion I have attended about health care there is always some idiot extolling the virtues of some European or Canadian system and how we should be more like them. I attend a hearing before the California Senate and at leats three idiots got up and started mouthing off about how great the NHS was. Like I said, if we can set up a UHS that is nothing like the European or Japanese models then fine.



See when you start talking about how healthy people in the UK are, it makes me nervous about messing with our system. The people in the UK are probably healthier because they eat better and are less obese, not because they receive better medical care. I used to live in Silverlake in LA and ended up going to the emergency room at LA County General downtown. I heard stories it was like a MASH unit because of the gang problems, and an awful place, but I went there after the South Surrey hosptial and the place was like paradise compared to south surrey. Yes I had to wait two hours, and only saw a resident who was overworked, but at least he spoke English and he seemed to care about my well being. He used only packaged sterile instruments and seemed very competant. And the place was spotless compared to any hospital I had been in Europe. We should try and make our health care system but the knee jerk reaction should be, if this is how they do it in England, France or Japan, then we should not do it that way.

The system could definitely be improved, but it could also be a hell of a lot worse. One way to insure we do not "reform" it downward is to avoid all the mistakes these other countries have made.

So, Spanky, what do you thin? If we decide to change our health care system, should we use England, France or Japan as a model?