A disgusting vat of filth that no self-respecting intelligent person would wade into.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Where's the 2007 update?

Unclear. Until it's issued, though, welcome to North Carolina!

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
They're obviously looking at the average annual low, across some number of years. Words have meanings, and you're being obtuse.

Note also, that the people who put this map out did so to guide people planting trees, not to make a point about global warming.

Planting trees or hugging trees?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
when you start talking about things that involve math you start losing, did you realize that?

there is no explanation of what they mean by average. the chart says "recent years." 2? 5? 10? and what was the original chart based upon? 100 years? you can't tell anything from it w/o knowing all of this. the last 2 years could have been warmer than average, or less extreme, since your guess is that the chart only looks to the extreme.

I can tell you this, Al Gore in his most extreme moments would not claim that the United States has increased in temperature by 10 degrees since 1990.

You're being stupid and difficult for the sake of being stupid and difficult. I couldn't find the relevant period when I looked quickly at the arbor foundation's sites, but obviously there is one, and what Gattigap just posted suggests that it's 15 years. You seem to think they're cherry-picking, but RT will explain why the coldest day of the winter matters when you're planting trees. The arbor people do, too, if you would bother to check their site.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
when you start talking about things that involve math you start losing, did you realize that?

there is no explanation of what they mean by average. the chart says "recent years." 2? 5? 10? and what was the original chart based upon? 100 years? you can't tell anything from it w/o knowing all of this. the last 2 years could have been warmer than average, or less extreme, since your guess is that the chart only looks to the extreme.

I can tell you this, Al Gore in his most extreme moments would not claim that the United States has increased in temperature by 10 degrees since 1990.

At his most extreme he would make the claim that it has happened since 2001....if only we had signed on to Kyoto it would all be different.

Occassionally at 3 or4 in the morning, following a night punctuated with a few bottles of wine, when the alcohol has just about worn off and the hangover is commencing, I will startle to awakenessitude and wonder if my blindely unwavering suppourt for W should be reexamined.

And then I remember the alternatives....

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Eggplant is the most vile vegetable on this or any other planet. I wouldn't eat it for money.

I love babba ganoush. Why do you hate roasted eggplant so? Why do you hate America? When will you learn that Middle Eastern food doesn't go with Kool-Aid?

Fucking commie.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You're being stupid and difficult for the sake of being stupid and difficult. I couldn't find the relevant period when I looked quickly at the arbor foundation's sites, but obviously there is one, and what Gattigap just posted suggests that it's 15 years. You seem to think they're cherry-picking, but RT will explain why the coldest day of the winter matters when you're planting trees. The arbor people do, too, if you would bother to check their site.

In the longer term of climatological change, is any 15 year swing truly indicative of long term trends?

Originally posted by taxwonk
I love babba ganoush. Why do you hate roasted eggplant so? Why do you hate America? When will you learn that Middle Eastern food doesn't go with Kool-Aid?

Fucking commie.

I hear everyone whining about global warming, but I tell you this: our country will never be safe from the Islamofacists and their culinary treachery until it's too fucking hot to grow eggplant anywhere in the lower 48. Cut them off from the means of creating their little terrorist tidbits and we'll see how cocky they are in our nation's departure lounges.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I couldn't find the relevant period when I looked quickly at the arbor foundation's sites, but obviously there is one, and what Gattigap just posted suggests that it's 15 years.

What I could find suggests that the new map is based on temperature data with no overlap with the old data (i.e. old map based on 1970-1985; new map based on 1986-2002). This strikes me as a methodology that will create larger changes, as there is no consideration given to the prior records. Also, it is not consistent with accepted weather statistics keeping, which bases average temperatures on 30 year periods.

If, as is possible, the last 15 years have been a slightly higher than average period due solely to normal climatic variations, then there are going to be a lot of stressed and dying trees planted in places like New Jersey.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
What I could find suggests that the new map is based on temperature data with no overlap with the old data (i.e. old map based on 1970-1985; new map based on 1986-2002). This strikes me as a methodology that will create larger changes, as there is no consideration given to the prior records. Also, it is not consistent with accepted weather statistics keeping, which bases average temperatures on 30 year periods.

If, as is possible, the last 15 years have been a slightly higher than average period due solely to normal climatic variations, then there are going to be a lot of stressed and dying trees planted in places like New Jersey.

Of course, the fun part is that this is what the Bush Administration tells its own red state voters who rely on it for useful information -- this is what the USDA gives you to rely on for planting.

They tell them, be careful, guys, it's warmer than it used to be. Here, look at our map.

But then, I understand Bush is ready to do something about Global Warming. Al Gore must have a big shit-eating grin right now.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You're being stupid and difficult for the sake of being stupid and difficult. I couldn't find the relevant period when I looked quickly at the arbor foundation's sites, but obviously there is one, and what Gattigap just posted suggests that it's 15 years. You seem to think they're cherry-picking, but RT will explain why the coldest day of the winter matters when you're planting trees. The arbor people do, too, if you would bother to check their site.

No he's not. This is a shitty example for your argument. You necessarily assume that there's no cycle longer than 16 years which would bring temperatures back down. Graphing global warming with a 16 year snapshot is judging the winner at Indy based on one random lap.

Actually, it's more like one centimeter of one random lap.

We get it. You're warning us about global warming. Good. Good. Understood. You have some proof. But this map thing? This ain't it.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Of course, the fun part is that this is what the Bush Administration tells its own red state voters who rely on it for useful information -- this is what the USDA gives you to rely on for planting.

They tell them, be careful, guys, it's warmer than it used to be. Here, look at our map.

But then, I understand Bush is ready to do something about Global Warming. Al Gore must have a big shit-eating grin right now.

Well, now that even Exxon is admitting that it's possible the temperatures are rising, the Bush administration may not be as keen on staying the course on this issue.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by ironweed
I hear everyone whining about global warming, but I tell you this: our country will never be safe from the Islamofacists and their culinary treachery until it's too fucking hot to grow eggplant anywhere in the lower 48. Cut them off from the means of creating their little terrorist tidbits and we'll see how cocky they are in our nation's departure lounges.

I love babba ganoush. Why do you hate roasted eggplant so? Why do you hate America? When will you learn that Middle Eastern food doesn't go with Kool-Aid?

Fucking commie.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by taxwonk
I love babba ganoush. Why do you hate roasted eggplant so? Why do you hate America? When will you learn that Middle Eastern food doesn't go with Kool-Aid?

Fucking commie.

I'll eat anything, and I like middle eastern food. But I'm not eating ANYTHING with eggplant in it.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
But then, I understand Bush is ready to do something about Global Warming.

Air conditioners for the Arctic?

One problem (with public perception and related momentum for change) that seems likely to occur is that, at some point, the Gulf Stream may slow down or stop because the movement of cold artic water will slow down, leading to the South Atlantic waters no longer needing to move north to fill the space. If that happens, much of the East Coast of North America and most of Western Europe will get quite a bit colder. For those who believe that there is a human-created problem (I do, for the most part), preparing for the repercussions of that sort of temporary "setback" to warming has to be part of the solution.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Well, now that even Exxon is admitting that it's possible the temperatures are rising, the Bush administration may not be as keen on staying the course on this issue.

Forget about the if it is happening question for a second.* Is it necessarily a bad thing? Maybe, without it, we would be heading for a second ice age, and even if we are not, I wouldn't mind a few degress warmer here and there, especially the last few weeks.

*I understand that temperatures have risen slightly over the last 100 years, but my understanding is that it has not be proven that this is a result of human action.