Still Hating America.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
U.S. dollars are used as currency in Iraq, right alongside the dinar.

Plus, the cash went to the Iraqi "government" of the day, which held it as foreign currency reserves.

S_A_M

That isn't what the article says. It says the money was to fund government functions.

Bremer's explanation:

"We were in the middle of a war, working in very difficult conditions, and we had to move quickly to get this Iraqi money working for the Iraqi people," Bremer told lawmakers. He said there was no banking system and it would have been impossible to apply modern accounting standards in the midst of a war.

8.8 billion is apparently unacounted for

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm sure you'll agree that if they're going to do that shit, they're not going to wait until the firm is representing Gitmo detainees to try it.

Your use of "if" is amusing.

Nobody in history has ever billed an actual 2000 truly billable hours in a year. I don't how low you set the bar on what's considered billable. When you slice out all the fuckaround time, daydreaming, internet time, personal phone calls, bathroom trips, lunches, etc... even the bare bones honest bills of those 10% of attys who don't use the industry standard 10-20% "pad" already have an inherent 10% fluff rate built into them.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
I agree with Hank and Slave that, sure, there are some costs to the firms for doing any pro bono work -- much less a complex international case such as these can be. (In one case, for example, I know that the lawyers have flown to Egypt more than once to interview witnesses and family members.)

It is also rather unrealistic to assume that: (a) these costs are never passed along to the paying customers in any way, although there is no direct link; or (b) that these cases are being handled by junior associates just like a pro bono Social Security appeal. And its not just a matter of profile, it is a matter of competence to handle the representation.

These seem to be pretty basic points not worth arguing about.

S_A_M

I am not sure what you mean by "passed along." The paying customers are the only source of revenue for the firm, so, yeah, the costs are ultimately paid out of funds that originate with paying clients. But that doesn't mean they are "passed along." Count me among those who have no idea what Sebby is referring to.

As for who is staffing these project, sure, there is going to be some partner involvement (likely including the arguments) but like every other matter, the vast bulk of that time will be put in by associates.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man

It is also rather unrealistic to assume that: (a) these costs are never passed along to the paying customers in any way, although there is no direct link;

Sure, but so is the tuition of the partner's daughter at prep school, or her donation to Planned Parenthood. I'm not sure the linkage is much more direct than that.

[Adder]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Your use of "if" is amusing.

Nobody in history has ever billed an actual 2000 truly billable hours in a year. I don't how low you set the bar on what's considered billable. When you slice out all the fuckaround time, daydreaming, internet time, personal phone calls, bathroom trips, lunches, etc... even the bare bones honest bills of those 10% of attys who don't use the industry standard 10-20% "pad" already have an inherent 10% fluff rate built into them.

I, for one, think you are full of shit.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
When the shooting starts, I'd rather hide behind a pallet of Benjamins.

I'd rather hide behind Henry Waxman (and maybe a few of his colleagues... he's awfully skinny).

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Adder
I, for one, think you are full of shit.

I don't give a fuck what you think.

ETA: A little harsh. Sorry.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Your use of "if" is amusing.

Nobody in history has ever billed an actual 2000 truly billable hours in a year. I don't how low you set the bar on what's considered billable. When you slice out all the fuckaround time, daydreaming, internet time, personal phone calls, bathroom trips, lunches, etc... even the bare bones honest bills of those 10% of attys who don't use the industry standard 10-20% "pad" already have an inherent 10% fluff rate built into them.

OK. My point was that all that has nothing to do with whether your firm is doing pro bono work for Gitmo detainees, and anyone at those firms who is padding their bills is doubtless padding their bills the rest of the time.

[Adder]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I don't give a fuck what you think.

ETA: A little harsh. Sorry.

No need for the edit, I'm not sensitive. But I know plenty of my colleagues who have easily billed legit 2000.

Now, those who get over 2500 or so, yeah, I am skeptical.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Adder
Now, those who get over 2500 or so, yeah, I am skeptical.

It depends. I can believe it if they have a big deal or big litigation that takes a long time, especially if they're lead counsel and thus constantly meeting/calling/etc.

I don'tbelieve it for any first/second year associate who claims to do it just for boxreview, though.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Adder
No need for the edit, I'm not sensitive. But I know plenty of my colleagues who have easily billed legit 2000.

Now, those who get over 2500 or so, yeah, I am skeptical.

This one is amusing:

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/30/images/farmer.pdf

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
It depends. I can believe it if they have a big deal or big litigation that takes a long time, especially if they're lead counsel and thus constantly meeting/calling/etc.

I don'tbelieve it for any first/second year associate who claims to do it just for boxreview, though.

It's always bullshit. 2500 presumes a person worked 6.85 hours a day without taking a vacation day for an entire year. Nobody's done that.

Trial is probably the best pure measure of what an actual "billable" hour is. You can't fuck around while you're in there. You have to think for 7 hours straight, every day (assuming lunch hour off). Even the time you;'re standing around waiting is time you have to think about other stuff coming up. The longest case I single chaired was five days. That involves, considering motions, meetings and prep before and after the hours you're in court about 10 pure, truly billable hours per day. If you do that for five days, you are jelly for at least two days afterward.

The human mind doesn't do 6.85 pure billable hours per day 365 days a year.

A 2500 hour year is filled with dead time the biller billed for anyway, or belongs to a lawyer who travels an incredible amount of time. You can't think that much. And if you are, your client doesn't deserve the service he's paying for because at that rate of use, your mind is giving him at best 70% effort, and you're likely to fuck a lot of things up.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
OK. My point was that all that has nothing to do with whether your firm is doing pro bono work for Gitmo detainees, and anyone at those firms who is padding their bills is doubtless padding their bills the rest of the time.

I understood. I agree.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
It's always bullshit. 2500 presumes a person worked 6.85 hours a day without taking a vacation day for an entire year. Nobody's done that.

It's 200/month for a full year. Not easy. I worked on a merger where I billed 300 a month for several months straight. It was exhausting, and not something I'd want to do. But it was "easy" in the sense that there was so much work to do that the hours added up. Not all of it was full engagement--for example, the daily meetings and conference calls with multiple lawyers, the travel, etc., all was billable. For the rest of the year I needed to bill about 150 to hit 2500. Instead I said fuck it and billed about 100 hours/month.

I don't have much tolerance for such stuff, but I know others do, so I could see someone doing that for a full year.

edited to fix irrelevant math error.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
This one is amusing:

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/30/images/farmer.pdf

That's good stuff.

I wonder what happened to that guy's career.