Still Hating America.

[Spanky]

Did anyone hear this story about the head of West Point (Brigadier General somebody) talking to the producers of 24 and asking them to stop having Keifer Sutherland torture prisoners? Or at least have the torture backfire in cases instead of it always leading to the ticking time bomb nuclear weapon. I heard it on "Countdown with Keith Olberman" (OK Slave and Penske, don't kill me, it is funny sometimes) but haven't heard it anywhere else.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
We are in a war on terror and we are only spending four percent of our GDP on defense. Not much of a war.

Off my corner, ho.

[SlaveNoMore]

Gattigap
Nifty. So! How many calls have you made yet?

Four.

How about you?

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Off my corner, ho.

Let me rephrase, why "slow bleed" the troops then?

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Spanky
Did anyone hear this story about the head of West Point (Brigadier General somebody) talking to the producers of 24 and asking them to stop having Keifer Sutherland torture prisoners? Or at least have the torture backfire in cases instead of it always leading to the ticking time bomb nuclear weapon. I heard it on "Countdown with Keith Olberman" (OK Slave and Penske, don't kill me, it is funny sometimes) but haven't heard it anywhere else.

Yep, that story's making the rounds -- essentially, various military folks going to the producers and explaining please, stop having Bauer torture the shit out of the Islamofascist Fuckhead of the day every other episode, because (1) there's always some ticking bomb scenario on the show, which never happens in IRL situations, (2) other tactics work better, but we have to convince our troops to take the time to learn and do the other tactics instead of just beating the shit out of the prisoner because hey, Jack does it, and look how well it works!

Presumably, the producers learned that it's much more effective for the interrogator to do shit like win the prisoner's trust and then trick the information out of him, but don't want to go that route because it doesn't fit within 42 minutes of airtime. Pity, that.

Also, it appears that Bauer has tortured something like 67 prisoners in six seasons. That guy gets around, huh?

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Off my corner, ho.

How did I miss that? In any event, W. should have spent a lot more money on Defense and spent a lot more political capital on increasing the size of the army and the rest of the military. But he never really was a committed NeoCon. At least now he is coming around to understanding that we need more troops in Iraq and need to vastly increase the size of our military.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Four.

How about you?

None yet, but I'm smiling at your publication's declaration that these 17 GOPers have decided to end their career today. Howard Coble? Walter Jones? Good luck. Those guys are so embedded in NC politics you won't get them out with a crowbar.

[SlaveNoMore]

Spanky
Did anyone hear this story about the head of West Point (Brigadier General somebody) talking to the producers of 24 and asking them to stop having Keifer Sutherland torture prisoners? Or at least have the torture backfire in cases instead of it always leading to the ticking time bomb nuclear weapon. I heard it on "Countdown with Keith Olberman" (OK Slave and Penske, don't kill me, it is funny sometimes) but haven't heard it anywhere else.

...I think one of the most devastating things that has happened with that show has been the narrative that torture works, where over and over again they show that there's this ticking bomb scenario, which is a false idea to begin with, right, that you have one second to get X information to save all these people's lives, and the only way to solve it is by torturing somebody. We've seen the results of torture. It doesn't work and you get false information. And that's where the show and other shows like it really do a disservice because they affect a kind of narrative in a way that people throughout the country start to believe, yeah, well, I really don't like torture, but I better use it because it's the only way to save my country.

Problem is that wasn't any General.

The quote was from the moonbat lefty producer of the anti-FNC film "Outfoxed"

link

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Yep, that story's making the rounds -- essentially, various military folks going to the producers and explaining please, stop having Bauer torture the shit out of the Islamofascist Fuckhead of the day every other episode, because (1) there's always some ticking bomb scenario on the show, which never happens in IRL situations, (2) other tactics work better, but we have to convince our troops to take the time to learn and do the other tactics instead of just beating the shit out of the prisoner because hey, Jack does it, and look how well it works!

Presumably, the producers learned that it's much more effective for the interrogator to do shit like win the prisoner's trust and then trick the information out of him, but don't want to go that route because it doesn't fit within 42 minutes of airtime. Pity, that.

Also, it appears that Bauer has tortured something like 67 prisoners in six seasons. That guy gets around, huh?

I have never seen the show. I hear it is really addictive, and I already have plenty of addictions: The Economist, NYT Crossword, Sopranos, Deadwood, Rome, Six Feet Under, Nip Tuck, Dirt, etc.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Let me rephrase, why "slow bleed" the troops then?

It's slow bleed of the President's misconceived, misexecuted war. No troops will be slowly bled, except to the extent that they already have been denied things like body armor and armor for their Humvees by a Rumsfeld-led Pentagon that apparently had other priorities.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
How did I miss that? In any event, W. should have spent a lot more money on Defense and spent a lot more political capital on increasing the size of the army and the rest of the military. But he never really was a committed NeoCon.

And his actions never lived up to his rhetoric.

At least now he is coming around to understanding that we need more troops in Iraq and need to vastly increase the size of our military.

Why do you say this? Is the President prepared to advocate tax increases to pay for big increases in military spending? If not, then his war isn't as important to his as cutting taxes for his supporters.

But we all know this.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Problem is that wasn't any General.

The quote was from the moonbat lefty producer of the anti-FNC film "Outfoxed"

link

That's all fine and good, Slave, but know that some honest to shit military folks like West Point Deans met with them too.

link

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Spanky
From today's Economist:


....though nowhere near as costly to America in terms of blood (3,100 deaths so far, versus 58,000 - in Vietnam). Total military spending for 2008 is projected at 4.4% of GDP. That is a lighter burden than during previous large conflicts: America spent more than 9% of GDP on defence at the height of the Vietnam war, 14% during the Korean war and 37% during the second world war.

I will check it out when I get home, but are they doing this in real terms (i.e., compensating for the fact that our GDP is bigger in real terms than it was then)? Shouldn't things (everything being equal) be cheaper, as a percentage of GDP, when GDP grows?

OK, I just looked it up before going home. Motherfucker, Spanky, nice leaving out of the beginning of the paragraph you quoted:

"Mr Bush's latest request (to which must be added a supplementary $100 billion for the current fiscal year) would bring the total cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to $661 billion since 2001. That would make them a greater swallower of American treasure than the Vietnam war (in real dollars), though nowhere near as costly to America in terms of blood (3,100 deaths so far, versus 58,000)."

Helpful of you to leave in the "though," though.


ETA the next paragraph is very supportive of the success of the war to date:

"It is not the money that worries Americans so much as the fear that the cause is hopeless. The average number of daily attacks by insurgents and militias in Iraq leapt from 75 at the beginning of last year to 185 in November. Two-fifths of the Iraqi professional class have fled the country. Even America's successes give little relief. Late last month, American and Iraqi troops smashed a Shia cult called the “Soldiers of Heaven”. A victory is a victory, but what struck viewers in Iowa was that Iraq has heavily-armed apocalyptic factions they have never even heard of."

EATA and all of this is from the Feb. 8th issue, not the most recent issue. What is up with you? Or is it that I normally don't read your posts b/c they are too long, and so miss all this misstatement stuff?

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
It's slow bleed of the President's misconceived, misexecuted war. No troops will be slowly bled, except to the extent that they already have been denied things like body armor and armor for their Humvees by a Rumsfeld-led Pentagon that apparently had other priorities.

Nice spin.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Motherfucker, Spanky, nice leaving out of the beginning of the paragraph you quoted.

Ooh, burn.