Still Hating America. - Page 140

SlaveNoMore · 03-06-2007, 05:39 PM

has lost his mind:

Quote:

Something is rotten in the heart of Washington; and it lies in the vice-president's office. The salience of this case is obvious. What it is really about - what it has always been about - is whether this administration deliberately misled the American people about WMD intelligence before the war.(slave - really Andy, even when Fitz said there was no crime other than the perjury?) The risks Cheney took to attack Wilson, the insane over-reaction that otherwise very smart men in this administration engaged in to rebut a relatively trivial issue: all this strongly implies the fact they were terrified that the full details of their pre-war WMD knowledge would come out. Fitzgerald could smell this. He was right to pursue it, and to prove that a brilliant, intelligent, sane man like Libby would risk jail to protect his bosses. What was he really trying to hide? We now need a Congressional investigation to find out more, to subpoena Cheney and, if he won't cooperate, consider impeaching him.

Adder · 03-06-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
has lost his mind: (slave - really Andy, even when Fitz said there was no crime other than the perjury?)

What crime would the administration have been committing had they, " deliberately misled the American people about WMD intelligence before the war?"

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-06-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
has lost his mind:

Do you think the prosecution of Al Capone was really about tax evasion?

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-06-2007, 07:18 PM

Apparently John McCain was born in Coco Solo, Panama, in the Panama Canal Zone. That's not in the United States. So how can he become President?

ltl/fb · 03-06-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Apparently John McCain was born in Coco Solo, Panama, in the Panama Canal Zone. That's not in the United States. So how can he become President?

I think it was like an army base, which I think counts as US soil or whatever. The Canal Zone had its own district court, per Wikipedia. It was dissolved after control shifted to Panama in the late 1970s. Or whatever.

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-06-2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I think it was like an army base, which I think counts as US soil or whatever. The Canal Zone had its own district court, per Wikipedia. It was dissolved after control shifted to Panama in the late 1970s. Or whatever.

Did the framers think that people born on a U.S. military encampment in a foreign country were "native born"? I think not.

Replaced_Texan · 03-06-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Did the framers think that people born on a U.S. military encampment in a foreign country were "native born"? I think not.

They probably weren't really thinking "Arizona" either. And certainly not "Hawaii."

ltl/fb · 03-06-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Did the framers think that people born on a U.S. military encampment in a foreign country were "native born"? I think not.

Um OK whatever. I'd rather have McCain as president than most other Rs I've seen up for it.

I don't think the Framers would think that anyone born in e.g. California or Wyoming or Texas is native-born either. Because back when they were thinking, those weren't part of the US.

Go fetch me a DDP.

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-06-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Um OK whatever. I'd rather have McCain as president than most other Rs I've seen up for it.

I don't think the Framers would think that anyone born in e.g. California or Wyoming or Texas is native-born either. Because back when they were thinking, those weren't part of the US.

Go fetch me a DDP.

I think the framers were hip to the notion that other places might become states. Like California or Wyoming or Panama. Except that -- whoops -- Panama isn't a state. It's not one of the United States.

Nothing against McCain per se, and I think it's a stupid constitutional provision.

ltl/fb · 03-06-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I think the framers were hip to the notion that other places might become states. Like California or Wyoming or Panama. Except that -- whoops -- Panama isn't a state. It's not one of the United States.

Nothing against McCain per se, and I think it's a stupid constitutional provision.

Would your answer change if he were born on an Army base or at an embassy or something, to parents who were overseas serving their country?

I think those places count as US territory. Even though they are surrounded by foreign soil.

Think of them as colonies. I'm sure the framers had a concept of colonies.

Adder · 03-06-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Did the framers think that people born on a U.S. military encampment in a foreign country were "native born"? I think not.

Were his parents American citizens? If so, he is native born whether actually born in the U.S. or not.

In other words, he is not naturalized.

sebastian_dangerfield · 03-06-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
It looks to me like Libby is going to take the fall again. His conviction is going to push this hearing to the middle pages.

FWIW, a Wall St. J. article suggests at least McKay was taking the approach suggested by RT--drift away quietly--until his performance came up.

I'm praying for a pardon at some point, just because it'd be so fucking funny.

He won't get 24 months. He'll get a little over a year. Everyone recogn izes this thing was an appalling charade.

Adder · 03-06-2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I'm praying for a pardon at some point, just because it'd be so fucking funny.

He won't get 24 months. He'll get a little over a year. Everyone recogn izes this thing was an appalling charade.

Who is everyone? Dude lied to the FBI and the grand jury. Not the most henious of crimes when the subject matter is primarily political, but a crime nonetheless.

sebastian_dangerfield · 03-06-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Adder
Who is everyone? Dude lied to the FBI and the grand jury. Not the most henious of crimes when the subject matter is primarily political, but a crime nonetheless.

It was OK for Clinton to lie and OK for Libby to lie. I don't view political witchhunts as having anything to do with the law.

In those circumstances, you get a pass.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) · 03-06-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Did the framers think that people born on a U.S. military encampment in a foreign country were "native born"? I think not.

It says "natural born citizen"

Doesn't that mean citizen at the time of birth? And one can be a citizen of the U.S. even if one is born overseas, whether to U.S. parents, on a military base, etc., as pointed out.

This isn't like Madeline Albright (born in Prague and a Czech citizen at first) or Jennifer Granholm (born in Vancouver).

OF course, the 14-year residency requirment could come into play on such a person . . .