Meet your new thread, same as the old thread.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Ten bucks says that's on Addington's list of arguments.

Hasn't his office claimed executive branch privilege on other things?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Hasn't his office claimed executive branch privilege on other things?

This is kind of different - he's claiming privilege for not being in the executive.

Cheney's likes to argue Penske-style. If you make the point that he's claimed Executive Privilege, but that means he's part of the Executive, he'll talk about Hillary and Carter.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
This is kind of different - he's claiming privilege for not being in the executive.

Are you fucking kidding me? Do you really not realize that my question was aimed at "he's trying to have it both ways; seems like that may not fly very well"?

Perhaps I will find more a higher level of intelligence amongst the personnel of Fox News.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Hasn't his office claimed executive branch privilege on other things?

I think so. The ingenious part of Cheney's argument is that his office "is a unique office that is neither a part of the executive branch nor a part of the legislative branch, but is attached by the Constitution to the latter. The vice presidency performs functions in both the legislative branch … and in the executive branch."

It's like it's a interplanetary office hovering just outside the ionosphere of Constitutional reach. Quite inventive, really.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Gattigap
I think so. The ingenious part of Cheney's argument is that his office "is a unique office that is neither a part of the executive branch nor a part of the legislative branch, but is attached by the Constitution to the latter. The vice presidency performs functions in both the legislative branch … and in the executive branch."

It's like it's a interplanetary office hovering just outside the ionosphere of Constitutional reach. Quite inventive, really.

This gives me a headache. But thank you for not presuming I'm almost unbelievably stupid. If I were as stupid as some think I don't know that I'd be able to master typing, or consistently hitting the right buttons to make posts.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Ten bucks says that's on Addington's list of arguments.

It would be malpractice not to have it there.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Hasn't his office claimed executive branch privilege on other things?

Has he claimed it for himself or on behalf of the president?

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Has he claimed it for himself or on behalf of the president?

Uh, I thought that energy committee thingy? But I really don't pay much attention. It just seems like something he would really like to claim. A Cheney-esque move.

ETC "oil" to "energy"

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Gattigap
I think so. The ingenious part of Cheney's argument is that his office "is a unique office that is neither a part of the executive branch nor a part of the legislative branch, but is attached by the Constitution to the latter. The vice presidency performs functions in both the legislative branch … and in the executive branch."

It's like it's a interplanetary office hovering just outside the ionosphere of Constitutional reach. Quite inventive, really.

I suppose Article II section 1 is rather vague: "The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, "

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Given that John Edwards' hair has gotten so much more attention than Rudy Giuliani's skipping of Iraq Study Group meetings, and that there's been no attention to the fact that Giuliani has no Iraq policy and ducks questions on the subject, one might start to wonder whether he'll get any critical media attention. One test will be whether this story, which I didn't know about five minutes ago, gets any play.

Rudy Giuliani's consulting firm, Giuliani Partners, has for years employed a Catholic priest who was accused by a grand jury of orchestrating the over-up of nearly 60 separate molestations allegations -- a priest who allegedly partook of the activities himself. The priest, Alan Placa, is one of Giuliani's oldest friends; in turn, Giuliani has become Placa's highest-profile defender.

This is a remarkable story about how, for Giuliani, the bonds of friendship can survive even the highest levels of moral radioactivity. If the court documents are accurate, if the allegations are true, even in part, it's also the story of a very troubled priest who abused the trust of his young charges.

I first learned about this story earlier this year, when Giuliani opponents circulated a Newsday article at the Conservative Political Action Conference. Today, Salon fills in some of the blanks.

The basic facts are as follows.

At the height of the molestation scandal that damaged the Catholic Church in 2002, Monsignor Placa was accused by two former students of having touched them inappropriately while serving as Dean of Students at a Long Island seminary school in the 1970s. One student alleged that Placa fondled him while the two were creating banners for a Nat'l Right To Life event. Placa denied the charges. Shortly there after, a second former student alleged that Placa repeatedly groped him while the two would read the New York Times.

Placa grew up with Rudy Giuliani, was " the best man for his first marriage, baptized his children, helped him annul his first marriage and buried his mother," according to Newsday. And after the diocese forced Placa to temporarily resign his position until the charges against him were resolved, Giuliani gave him a plum assignment at Giuliani Partners, where he remains employed.

If that's where it ended, Giuliani could say that he was simply standing by an old friend who was innocent.

But in 2003, a grand jury concluded that Placa was at the center of a diocese-wide effort to cover up nearly 60 allegations of sexual abuse by its priests. Here's the grand jury report -- you can read it for yourself. Placa is "Priest F," according to numerous published reports.

Per the National Catholic Reporter:

• The report documents allegations of the rape of cheerleaders and altar boys, of acts of molestation and seductions in churches, rectories, on camping trips, and in the homes of the minors who were abused. It tells of instances in which priests provided minors with pornography and alcohol, and of cases in which the diocese received allegations and didn’t report them to police, but instead transferred the accused priests to other parishes.

Newsday elaborated:

• Routinely, the report said, Placa dragged out cases to make legal redress difficult. Victims were often ‘ignored, belittled and revictimized. In some cases, the grand jury finds that the diocese procrastinated for the sole purpose of making sure that the civil and criminal statutes of limitation were no longer applicable.’ In one case … Placa reportedly told a nun who had brought together victims and their families that the meeting was a waste of time because the statute of limitations had expired.

Additionally, the grand jury found two other boys who alleged that "Priest F" -- Placa, although he was not named -- had molested them. The grand jury found that Placa was "cautious but relentless" in "pursuing his victims."

Giuliani stood by Placa after the grand jury issued its report, and he stands by him now.

Placa was never charged; the statute of limitations had run out.

Again, Giuliani defended Placa against the sexual abuse allegations.

Salon has a more complete history of this case today, and it includes a confirmation from Giuliani Partners spokeswoman Sunny Mindel that Placa is still aboard and that Giuliani believes Placa to be innocent.

Marc Ambinder at The Atlantic

Bernie Kerik was a canary in a coal mine. If Hillary did something like this, you'd have to go to Mongolia to miss the story, but will Rudy skate?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Hoover was a big isolationist, and staunchly opposed the US getting into WW2. For a cite, you can pull pretty much any book about Roosevelt or Hoover off the shelves. How old are your kids? If they have a sixth grade textbook that's probably a good bet.

You forget. Hank is of the school that believes you needn't have facts to have an opinion.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Dude. free speech? WTF? I realize we can't jail or fine Carter. Sometimes, when a person has a big important job, they have to think about whether not saying something might be a good idea. That's all.

Possibly senile old peanut farmer? Bad author? Philanthropist?

Which big, important job were you thinking of?

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by taxwonk
You forget. Hank is of the school that believes you needn't have facts to have an opinion.

Long as it comes with a sticker, I think you're fine.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by taxwonk
You forget. Hank is of the school that believes you needn't have facts to have an opinion.

He certainly can have an opinion without facts; it when he tries to have facts without facts that I object.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
When Jimmy Carter expresses concern for the plight of Palestinians, you guys develop a remarkable concern for the sensitivities of the Arab street. Apparently Arabs aren't going to notice what's happening in Gaza unless Jimmy Carter tells them.

It's quite a contrast to the concern you usually show for the prospect that things Americans say will rile up Arabs.

I say, Bring it On!

S_A_M