No Faith in the Moral Standards of the Players as a Group

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

So your porn is still magazines? Think of the environment.

He didn't say he doesn't use airplay to the big screen.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Speaking of things read and not watched, I agree with quite a bit in this Rolling Stone article, including especially this description of what most Pats fans think:

I firmly believe Patriots fans and fans of the NFL's 31 other teams agree about most everything whereas "Deflategate" is concerned. It's really along the margins where Pats fans will go off on their own, suggesting that this is part of a larger, nefarious effort inside NFL headquarters to smear the Patriots because of their prolonged success. That's a harder story to swallow, but it's also not entirely without merit.

Generally speaking, most (if not all) Pats fans believe that Brady probably did something, in the sense that every single NFL quarterback likes his footballs with a particular feel and grip.

Portnoy: I think that's fair. I think that's how it started. And then as more information came out about what actually went down, it went from a feeling of that to "This was a sting." The problem is, why were these lies made up about what really happened? This is a nothing issue: Every quarterback under the sun has said they want their balls a certain way.

I agree, most Pats fans aren't sitting there thinking he's a choir boy, but it was more like, "This is clearly like this because it's the Patriots," just because they don't like Belichick or Brady, and that's what's caused so much fervor among Patriots fans. We have to defend this to the death because it wasn't a neutral investigation and [Goodell] wasn't a neutral arbitrator. It was clear that this was basically a set-up.

Finn: I think the more reasonable fans look at it and say, "There was a culture of gamesmanship with the way the quarterbacks handle the footballs here." Everybody is aware, I think, that Brady and Peyton Manning sort of helmed the idea in 2006, when it was passed that the quarterbacks get to handle and manipulate the footballs before a game, sort of to their own specifications within specific guidelines.

And as it turned out, the league, for whatever reason – it's hard to gauge what Roger Goodell's motivations are – turned this into some big thing, and it expanded beyond what they probably thought it would be. It became this big mess. Again, the more reasonable majority of Pats fans look at it and say, "Sure, Tom Brady wanted the footballs a certain way, but so does everybody." The crime doesn't fit the punishment. It greatly, greatly exceeds whatever the crime was, if there was a crime at all.

I'm not sure why the NFL and ESPN were smearing Brady and the Patriots, and I doubt it's "because of their prolonged success," but they definitely were.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Speaking of things read and not watched, I agree with quite a bit in this Rolling Stone article, including especially this description of what most Pats fans think:



I'm not sure why the NFL and ESPN were smearing Brady and the Patriots, and I doubt it's "because of their prolonged success," but they definitely were.

Do Patriots fans realize that these Super Bowl teams are going to be remembered as the Sosa and McGuire of the NFL? Celebrated at the time but historically damaged beyond repair. That's their legacy. Patriots fans can say they don't care, but they're lying to themselves.

Not because of Deflategate; but because of the rest of the stuff.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

Do Patriots fans realize that these Super Bowl teams are going to be remembered as the Sosa and McGuire of the NFL? Celebrated at the time but historically damaged beyond repair. That's their legacy. Patriots fans can say they don't care, but they're lying to themselves.

Not because of Deflategate; but because of the rest of the stuff.

You mean kind of like how no one believes "the Giants win the pennant" any more?

[Not Bob]

They are here: http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454

I was able to look at the first few before I had to stop. Anyway, carry on.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Speaking of things read and not watched, I agree with quite a bit in this Rolling Stone article, including especially this description of what most Pats fans think:



I'm not sure why the NFL and ESPN were smearing Brady and the Patriots, and I doubt it's "because of their prolonged success," but they definitely were.

Any time you think, "this is only happening because its X team" you're probably wrong.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

They are here: http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454

I was able to look at the first few before I had to stop. Anyway, carry on.

Not going to be doing that today.

Also may generally need to hide from the interwebs more broadly too.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

http://deadspin.com/what-exactly-hap...ium=socialflow

TM

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

You mean kind of like how no one believes "the Giants win the pennant" any more?

You're going to have to explain.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

They are here: http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454

I was able to look at the first few before I had to stop. Anyway, carry on.

First let me say that I fully understand that people deal with this tremendous loss very differently. I get that people feel the need to make sure this day is remembered and that we must face it every year, read the names of the victims, honor the heroes who gave their lives helping others, and basically make sure that that moment and all those people are not forgotten and remain in our thoughts.

But I hate it. I can't stand it. I do not want to be exposed to wall-to-wall coverage of one of the worst days in our country's history. I remember it. I will never forget it. I will never forget the lives that were lost for absolutely no good reason. When I turn on any coverage and watch some of the people covering it with their forced stern faces, it makes me sick. When I feel like I can pick certain people out who are wallowing in it because they want some strange type of credibility for being the most caring or the most connected to the event, it makes me angry. When Giuliani (who lives his life based on taking advantage of this event) is held up and paraded around as some kind of hero who represents everyone in the city and is deemed the country's mayor, I see red. Everyone in this city (hell, everyone in this country) can immediately conjure up terrible images from that day and we often do, especially around this time. To blanket everything with those images really annoys me.

I went back and read a lot of those posts, Not Bob. What struck me was the caring that flowed from the people on this board. The grief and shock surely flows through each of the posts, but what really comes through, for me, is how much people cared about each other at that point. I think the coverage we're subjected to every year (including the posting of photos of the towers all over facebook and the like) is so focused on striking the right tone, not offending, holding cops and firemen above everyone, reading names, that this basic feeling--how we're all really the same and connected, and need to take care of each other--is completely lost.

Thanks for the link. It hurt to read through the posts from that day, but, in a strange way, it also felt a little comforting.

TM

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

You're going to have to explain.

Kind of makes my point, doesn't it?

Anyway:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/01/sp...ole-signs.html

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

http://deadspin.com/what-exactly-hap...ium=socialflow

TM

Who knows whether this guy is accurately assessing the systems in place, but how hard is it for the NFL, particularly after the several complaints made, to, you know, check the wiring? If the Pats have some switch or extra wire to do this, it should be pretty easy to find through an audit, even if the wires all run through a locked bathroom.

Or maybe allegations don't ultimately bear out.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...hes-home-games

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

Kind of makes my point, doesn't it?

Anyway:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/01/sp...ole-signs.html

That was a different time. I don't think that's going to be the case here.

The Patriots are now the Lance Armstrong of the NFL. And I kind of feel bad for Lance (even though he is supposedly a huge asshole) because there is a very good chance that his competition in those TDFs was doing the exact same things he was doing (which mirrors the Patriots' claim that everyone else was taping other teams so why are we the only ones being punished for it). There is certainly a possibility that the Patriots could have won the Spygate SBs without cheating, but we'll never know. Just like it's possible that McGwire or Sosa could have broken the HR record without steroids.

And then there is Bonds. His reputation forever tarnished even though he would have been a HOF-er before he voluntarily enlarged his head. No one outside of SF celebrates that guy, and no one outside of NE will respect the Pat's championships from the 2000s.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

Who knows whether this guy is accurately assessing the systems in place, but how hard is it for the NFL, particularly after the several complaints made, to, you know, check the wiring? If the Pats have some switch or extra wire to do this, it should be pretty easy to find through an audit, even if the wires all run through a locked bathroom.

Or maybe allegations don't ultimately bear out.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...hes-home-games

"Everyone else was was doing it!"

Sincerely,

Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Arod

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

"Everyone else was was doing it!"

Sincerely,

Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Arod

No - the Saints guy was never have found to have actually done anything wrong, by the NFL or FBI. It was an accusation.