Politics: A new beginning

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
So it's not a question of whether the fetus is a "human being", etc., after all, but a question of punishing people for having sex?

Dammit, you found me again. You're my third girlfriend, aren't you?
edited to fix tags, and no, I'm not -- T.S.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by bilmore
edited to fix tags, and no, I'm not -- T.S.

[DELUSIONAL RAVINGS] Oh now I know why it sometimes looks like I say inconsistent and factually incorrect things, Ty edits people's posts!!! You bastard!!!![/DELUSIONAL RAVINGS]

edited to fix tags -- T.S.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Not Me
[DELUSIONAL RAVINGS] Oh now I know why it sometimes looks like I say inconsistent and factually incorrect things, Ty edits people's posts!!! You bastard!!!![/DELUSIONAL RAVINGS]

edited to fix tags -- T.S.

Thanks for the laugh Ty.

[sgtclub]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4052506/

If this is all there is, I can't believe Clark didn't just disclose the reasons for Shelton's reservations. Makes be believe this is just the tip.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4052506/

If this is all there is, I can't believe Clark didn't just disclose the reasons for Shelton's reservations. Makes be believe this is just the tip.

Actually, that story is consistent with an interview I heard on NPR some months ago with another retired 4-star who knows all the participants. His word was that the so-called "character and integrity" issues had nothing to do with lying or "honesty" in that sense, but with the fact that Clark went around Shelton and/or "over his head" to press hard for his preferred policies. In the eyes of Shelton, a tough old boy,and much of the "old Army culture," that is sure as hell a firing offense.

He would not disclose it, I think because: (a) sometimes it is classier and wiser to remain silent; (b) it is a complicated story, not clean or simple; and (c) it could not possibly help a Presidential candidate to engage in a "he said, she said" with a highly respected retired former JCS chief.

It is a measure of how deeply Shelton must dislike Clark that he said anything at all (his statement was rather unseemly in the Army context) -- and he has since remained silent.

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

An excerpt from an AP news story, posted about 30 min. ago:

"KAY ASKS WHY US THOUGHT IRAQ HAD WMD

"WASHINGTON - U.S. intelligence agencies need to explain why their research indicated Iraq possessed banned weapons before the American-led invasion, says the outgoing top U.S. inspector, who now believes Saddam Hussein had no such arms.

"'I don't think they exist," David Kay said Sunday. "The fact that we found so far the weapons do not exist _ we've got to deal with that difference and understand why.'

* * *

"'It's an issue of the capabilities of one's intelligence service to collect valid, truthful information,' Kay said. Asked whether President Bush owed the nation an explanation for the gap between his warnings and Kay's findings, Kay said: 'I actually think the intelligence community owes the president, rather than the president owing the American people.'

"The CIA would not comment Sunday on Kay's remarks, although one intelligence official pointed out that Kay himself had predicted last year that his search would turn up banned weapons."

"Kay said his predictions were not "coming back to haunt me in the sense that I am embarrassed. They are coming back to haunt me in the sense of `Why could we all be so wrong?'"

"The White House stuck by its assertions that illicit weapons will be found in Iraq but had no additional response on Sunday to Kay's remarks."


I guess Kay didn't get the word about the party-line on "WMD-related program activities".

So, perhaps (a la Don King) Hussein was using "trickeration" on us all.


S_A_M

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
"KAY ASKS WHY US THOUGHT IRAQ HAD WMD

"WASHINGTON - U.S. intelligence agencies need to explain why their research indicated Iraq possessed banned weapons before the American-led invasion, says the outgoing top U.S. inspector, who now believes Saddam Hussein had no such arms.

First, why? The WMDs were just ONE reason to get rid of Saddam. Second, at the time the US invaded Iraq, everyone, even the fucking French, thought Saddam had WMD. Third, Saddam had WMD, he just shipped them to Syria.

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by bilmore

Respectfully disagree. One could make that sort of case out for any pet issue. Plus, as I have said earlier, I, with no more intelligence or insight than you, saw what Bush was saying pre-war, saw the same supporting info, knew about history, and, even now in the light of no WMD's being found, do not at all feel like I was lied to. Maybe if I hated Bush or Republicans I would, but that becomes a different argument.

I felt they exagerrated and spun. Bush is still doing it. His state of the union tries to tie Iraq to the war on terror not because of any relationship. Rather, Bush is doing it because guarding against terrorists is a priority for the public, and although Bush and his neo(phyte)cons wish otherwise, Iraq is not.

[Not Me]

These are my predictions for the NH Primary:

1. Pussy-whipped John Kerry

2. Madman Howie Dean

3. Contingency-fee parasite John Edwards

4. Lieberman

5. Clinton Butt-boy Wes Clark

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
I guess Kay didn't get the word about the party-line on "WMD-related program activities".

Did you stumble past his comments in the last few days about how he is certain that WMD's were shipped to Syria pre-invasion, or did those comments not fit in well with your theme?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
An excerpt from an AP news story, posted about 30 min. ago:


S_A_M

See Billmore's post. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

edited to add:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html

"In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, Dr Kay, who last week resigned as head of the Iraq Survey Group, said that he had uncovered evidence that unspecified materials had been moved to Syria shortly before last year's war to overthrow Saddam.

"We are not talking about a large stockpile of weapons," he said. "But we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD programme. Precisely what went to Syria, and what has happened to it, is a major issue that needs to be resolved."*

*granted, he does say these were not large stockpiles, but that doesn't exactly give me any comfort.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Asked whether President Bush owed the nation an explanation for the gap between his warnings and Kay's findings, Kay said: 'I actually think the intelligence community owes the president, rather than the president owing the American people.'



I guess Kay didn't get the word about the party-line on "WMD-related program activities".

And I missed that you stuck these particular quotes in with a non-seq conclusory spin. We haven't found any. Powell appears to be admitting same. Kay says himself that it appears to him that Bush got bad info. But, "the party line"? Jesus, Sam, why not just keep repeating "Bush lied"?

Oh, yeah, because that spin went nowhere, as did the other thirty attempts, (damned museum stuff). At what point do you think you recapture credibility?

If you want something substantive to jump Bush on, go to his inability to hold spending down to less than half of what the Dems tried to put in their version of bills. Profligacy, Incorporated, man.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by bilmore
Did you stumble past his comments in the last few days about how he is certain that WMD's were shipped to Syria pre-invasion

Originally posted by sgtclub
"In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, Dr Kay, who last week resigned as head of the Iraq Survey Group, said that he had uncovered evidence that unspecified materials had been moved to Syria shortly before last year's war to overthrow Saddam.

"We are not talking about a large stockpile of weapons," he said. "But we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD programme. Precisely what went to Syria, and what has happened to it, is a major issue that needs to be resolved."

Fuck! I knew I would be outed eventually.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

In the interview I heard with Kay today, he said he didn't know what may have been shipped to Syria, but you guys are all spinning it as if he's saying there were WMD and that's where they went. You all doth protest too much.

If the President had been misled by the intel folks, and given bad info, don't you think he'd be mad? Don't you think he be getting all medieval on their asses? Christie Todd Whitman and Paul O'Neill and Larry Lindsey don't have jobs in this Administration anymore, and it's because they didn't get with the program.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
In the interview I heard with Kay today, he said he didn't know what may have been shipped to Syria, but you guys are all spinning it as if he's saying there were WMD and that's where they went.

That is not what I said, but whatever. At least you cannot edit my interviews (although nothing stops you from mischaracterizing them).