Politics: Onward from New Hampshire - Page 5

bilmore · 01-28-2004, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
So, yes, you'll see a fair bit of ambition motivating what Kerry does. I think that is true of any politician, and very true of George Bush.

I was speaking of the sort of ambition that causes a twenty-year-old Clinton to begin planning his presidential inaugeration speech. I doubt Bush had really even discovered coke yet at that age.

baltassoc · 01-28-2004, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Surely no one here would quibble with his military record. We can take issue with a calculated and contrived use of the record as a building block for a political career.

I'm so confused. So you don't like McCain, Dole and the elder Bush?

Tyrone Slothrop · 01-28-2004, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Surely no one here would quibble with his military record.

How about the months (year?) he was AWOL from the Air National Guard? Apparently he only wanted to learn to wear the flightsuit.

bilmore · 01-28-2004, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
How about the months (year?) he was AWOL from the Air National Guard? Apparently he only wanted to learn to wear the flightsuit.

Bush has more than his share of faults. You would be well advised to deal with those, and not depend so much on simply repeating lies and distortions. It makes it seem as if you have no real case at all.

Tyrone Slothrop · 01-28-2004, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore

Just change "Vietnam" to "Iraq" and Trudeau could recycle this one.

Secret_Agent_Man · 01-28-2004, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
No. That was Kerrey, Neb Senator.

Oh my. How embarassing.

S_A_M

bilmore · 01-28-2004, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Oh my. How embarassing.

S_A_M

Naw. I had to google it to be sure.

sgtclub · 01-28-2004, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Oh my. How embarassing.

S_A_M

Your credibility is now severely in doubt.

sgtclub · 01-28-2004, 01:12 PM

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...813EST0501.DTL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edwards rejects a Kerry-Edwards ticket

TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer Wednesday, January 28, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(01-28) 09:09 PST ORANGEBURG, S.C. (AP) --

Presidential candidate John Edwards on Wednesday rejected any notion of sharing the Democratic ticket with front-running rival John Kerry -- unless he is at the top.

Asked on NBC's "Today" show if he would accept second place on the Democratic slate to face President Bush in the fall election, Edwards said: "I think you've got the order reversed. I intend to be the nominee."

Edwards said he would not be willing to be No. 2. "No, no. Final. I don't want to be vice president. I'm running for president," he said."

Tyrone Slothrop · 01-28-2004, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Bush has more than his share of faults. You would be well advised to deal with those, and not depend so much on simply repeating lies and distortions. It makes it seem as if you have no real case at all.

I only know what the Boston Globe reported. But my Google search pulled up Cecil Adams' explanation first, and I think we all know that he's good for the Straight Dope:

Here's the story as generally agreed upon: In January 1968, with the Vietnam war in full swing, Bush was due to graduate from Yale. Knowing he'd soon be eligible for the draft, he took an air force officers' test hoping to secure a billet with the Texas Air National Guard, which would allow him to do his military service at home. Bush didn't do particularly well on the test--on the pilot aptitude section, he scored in the 25th percentile, the lowest possible passing grade. But Bush's father, George H.W., was then a U.S. congressman from Houston, and strings were pulled. The younger Bush vaulted to the head of a long waiting list--a year and a half long, by some estimates--and in May of '68 he was inducted into the guard.

By all accounts Bush was an excellent pilot, but apparently his enthusiasm cooled. In 1972, four years into his six-year guard commitment, he was asked to work for the campaign of Bush family friend Winton Blount, who was running for the U.S. Senate in Alabama. In May Bush requested a transfer to an Alabama Air National Guard unit with no planes and minimal duties. Bush's immediate superiors approved the transfer, but higher-ups said no. The matter was delayed for months. In August Bush missed his annual flight physical and was grounded. (Some have speculated that he was worried about failing a drug test--the Pentagon had instituted random screening in April.) In September he was ordered to report to a different unit of the Alabama guard, the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group in Montgomery. Bush says he did so, but his nominal superiors say they never saw the guy, there's no documentation he ever showed up, and not one of the six or seven hundred soldiers then in the unit has stepped forward to corroborate Bush's story.

After the November election Bush returned to Texas, but apparently didn't notify his old Texas guard unit for quite a while, if ever. The Boston Globe initially reported that he started putting in some serious duty time in May, June, and July of 1973 to make up for what he'd missed. But according to a piece in the New Republic, there's no evidence Bush did even that. Whatever the case, even though his superiors knew he'd blown off his duties, they never disciplined him. (No one's ever been shot at dawn for missing a weekend guard drill, but policy at the time was to put shirkers on active duty.) Indeed, when Bush decided to go to business school at Harvard in the fall of 1973, he requested and got an honorable discharge--eight months before his service was scheduled to end.

Tyrone Slothrop · 01-28-2004, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Oh my. How embarassing.

Kerry and Kerrey were both decorated Navy veterans, but Kerrey served in the SEALs and Kerry commanded a river boat.

Secret_Agent_Man · 01-28-2004, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Surely no one here would quibble with his military record. We can take issue with a calculated and contrived use of the record as a building block for a political career. I doubt if Jonh McCain spent time in Hanoi trying to decide whether to look dishelved or preserved for his release photo.

I would not quibble with GWB's military record -- because I think there is no profit in it for the Democratic party in the 2004 elections.

However, while I would not characterize it the way Ty has done, I think that there are enough legitimate questions about Bush's situation that (particularly when combined with Cheney's five deferments) Sen. Kerry will or should be largely insulated from such charges during the campaign.

Consider -- It is no distortion to say that there appear to be serious and legitimate questions about whether Pres. Bush, as a young man, fulfilled his obligations as a member of the NG (?) in the early to mid-1970s.

It is also no distortion to say that there appear to be serious and legitimate questions about whether Pres. Bush, as a young man and the son of the (former) local Congressman and U.N. ambassador, received preferential treatment by being assigned a highly coveted slot in the local unit of the Texas Air National Guard, while there was a waiting list for such positions.

Now, some who have reason to know have said YES, and some have said NO, on each of these issues. That was then, this is now, and in any event nothing can be proven. However, when you combine this with Kerry's unquestioned war record and the lack therof for GWB or Cheney, I think that Kerry will be relatively safe from charges of opportunism and exploitation -- even if lots of people don't like him.

S_A_M

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy · 01-28-2004, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
How about the months (year?) he was AWOL from the Air National Guard? Apparently he only wanted to learn to wear the flightsuit.

I think Hank was saying no one would quibble with Kerry's war record, not Bush's.

I don't fault Bush for doing his best to shirk service, and Bilmore's right - it is evidence that his 20 year old mind was more on babes and drugs than service.

So which of them is like Clinton here?

Secret_Agent_Man · 01-28-2004, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...813EST0501.DTL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edwards rejects a Kerry-Edwards ticket

TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer Wednesday, January 28, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(01-28) 09:09 PST ORANGEBURG, S.C. (AP) --

Presidential candidate John Edwards on Wednesday rejected any notion of sharing the Democratic ticket with front-running rival John Kerry -- unless he is at the top.

Asked on NBC's "Today" show if he would accept second place on the Democratic slate to face President Bush in the fall election, Edwards said: "I think you've got the order reversed. I intend to be the nominee."

Edwards said he would not be willing to be No. 2. "No, no. Final. I don't want to be vice president. I'm running for president," he said."

Of course he'll say that now. The tune may change this summer.

S_A_M