Politics: J'accuse!

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by sgtclub
A part of me agrees with you, but another part of me thinks that we will not be able to secure the middle east or control terrorism without getting our hands dirty. I'm very torn on this. I'm not advocating prisoner abuse, but I also do not believe we can afford to provide the full portfolio of American constitutional protections.

I hear you, and our apparent enemy is saying if you can catch you some of them women soldiers, they're your slaves!!! so who are we really shocking, etc.

If the abuse here was "getting our hands dirty" to coerce these guys to detail where bombs were stored or something it would be different maybe. Its just that is seems the abuse was only done to abuse.

I mean is there a claim that these soldiers did this to loosen the prisoners up, and make them start talking? I haven't really heard that.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Not Me
Is mathematical ability an objectively true physical characteristic?

It may be, if it can be accurately measured. Charles Murray has done a lot of work with IQ in general, but I don't believe it was broken down by types of aptitudes. Intuitively, my guess is that it is predominately a physical characteristic, but these things are typically neither black nor white (that whole nature/nurture thing).

Note to Fringey, AG and others: See, I can make "grey" distinctions.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I hear you, and our apparent enemy is saying if you can catch you some of them women soldiers, they're your slaves!!! so who are we really shocking, etc.

This is indeed part of my point. The humiliation suffered really doesn't compare to the humiliation that most muslim countries inflict upon their women every day.

The other part of my point is that these countries, in a completely perverse way, actually respect brutality.

[sgtclub]

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/c...20040507.shtml

Interesting take by Charles Krauthammer on what the war in Iraq is about and why the humiliating pictures are doing so much damage in the Arab world.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by sgtclub
This is indeed part of my point. The humiliation suffered really doesn't compare to the humiliation that most muslim countries inflict upon their women every day.

Agreed.

Originally posted by sgtclub
The other part of my point is that these countries, in a completely perverse way, actually respect brutality.

Agreed.

Regarding your point about full constitutional protections for Iraqi POWs/detainees, I don't think anyone or at least I don't think I was advocating that. But the Geneva Convention, yes, we have to adhere to that for the Iraqis. Even Rummy agrees with that.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by sgtclub
The other part of my point is that these countries, in a completely perverse way, actually respect brutality.

Well, that explains why Saddam was polling way ahead of "provisional international coalition" before the invasion. If only we'd told them we'd be sticking things in their butts and peeing on them, we might have been able to accomplish the transfer of power bloodlessly.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Well, that explains why Saddam was polling way ahead of "provisional international coalition" before the invasion. If only we'd told them we'd be sticking things in their butts and peeing on them, we might have been able to accomplish the transfer of power bloodlessly.

AG, you just don't get the Arabs. Barbarism is respected. They are a primitive people.

Remember the disgust with Saddam that was expressed by the Arabs because his regime fell so quickly? Remember the disgust for Saddam when he was found quivering in a hole in the ground? They respected him when he was a brutal dictator.

The reason that it hasn't been bloodless is because fighting and killing is respected in the Arab world. The Arab world is a primitive, backwards, savage world. Hopefully, the installation of a democracy in Iraq and moving forward on the path to equality for women in Iraq will help to bring these people into the modern world.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by sgtclub The other part of my point is that these countries, in a completely perverse way, actually respect brutality.

This is not an accurate statement for many reasons. You might get partially there with a nontraditional definition of "respect," but even then.....

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Well, that explains why Saddam was polling way ahead of "provisional international coalition" before the invasion. If only we'd told them we'd be sticking things in their butts and peeing on them, we might have been able to accomplish the transfer of power bloodlessly.

2


fwiw, a club I frequent has offered the dog collar girl a job as a hostess, with the condition that she can bark orders, and work a whip with her off hand. she's almost too cute to wear a hood!

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch

Well, that explains why Saddam was polling way ahead of "provisional international coalition" before the invasion. If only we'd told them we'd be sticking things in their butts and peeing on them, we might have been able to accomplish the transfer of power bloodlessly.

You lefties. We live in a world that has prisons for captured terrorists, and those prisons have to be guarded by unsavory characters. Who's gonna do it? Social workers? ACLU attorneys? You weep for terrorists, criminals and suspects, and you curse the guards and interrogators that protect you from them. You lefties have that luxury. Your lefty delusions protect you from the hard trught that abuse just shy of torture, while tragic, saves lives, and the interrogators' behavior, while grotesque and abhorent to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth about the necessity of interrogators abusing prisoners and suspects because deep down you want it done -- you need it done.

I don't like abusing criminals, terrorists or suspects any more than you do, but some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had in Abu Ghraib Prison, which is the way the terrorists want it. Well, they get it.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
You need to read up on this. It is a HUGE scandal that is just starting to get play.

Heard anything more about this recently? Last I heard, the only source was a close associate of Ahmed Chalabi, and no one else had seen any proof . . . .

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Heard anything more about this recently? Last I heard, the only source was a close associate of Ahmed Chalabi, and no one else had seen any proof . . . .

you mean the diversion of the oil for food money? once it started to break a huge cache of the most pertinent records disappeared from the Rose law firm, ..........I mean the UN offices.

[Say_hello_for_me]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...004May8_3.html

Reiterating lots of stuff on the board before, at my hand and others.

A.) Lots of people in the military are pissed at Rummy and Wolfy. Beyond pissed. Wolfy has a pithy comment at the end about how they should tell him to his face. You know, like that Shinaski (sp?) guy. What ever happened to him again?

B.) The tone of the article diverges slightly from
1.) they never had an exit strategy (remember my simple exist strategy), but
2.) people at least imply that democracy was never feasible, or at least is not now.

How fucking hard is it to set up a rudimentary election system for adults in a town or region? If they vote, how hard is it to promise the town or region that we are out in 1 week, right after they set up a G under the elected leaders?

Not that the military is supposed to be expert at setting up elections or nuthin. But I'd love to see a strong demand made of Rummy to explain every day in the past year that local and regional elections have not been organized and held.

This is complete insanity, and the choice between Kerry and Bush is, whatchamacallit, Hobbesian?

One would be expected to try and get permission from France, Russia and China to respond to 9/11 by invading Afghanistan. The other, well, the article pretty accurately sums up my frustration with these assholes.

Kerry and a Repub congress sound okay?

Hello

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
You lefties. We live in a world that has prisons for captured terrorists, and those prisons have to be guarded by unsavory characters. Who's gonna do it? Social workers? ACLU attorneys? You weep for terrorists, criminals and suspects, and you curse the guards and interrogators that protect you from them. You lefties have that luxury. Your lefty delusions protect you from the hard trught that abuse just shy of torture, while tragic, saves lives, and the interrogators' behavior, while grotesque and abhorent to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth about the necessity of interrogators abusing prisoners and suspects because deep down you want it done -- you need it done.

I don't like abusing criminals, terrorists or suspects any more than you do, but some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had in Abu Ghraib Prison, which is the way the terrorists want it. Well, they get it.

GO. Do you take requests? I'd love to see you do it again.

[Atticus Grinch]

It's good to know that in Florida, at least, stupidity is non-partisan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3697541.stm