Politics: J'accuse!

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
That may be true, but it also suggests that there is documentary evidence that an independent third party has viewed.

KPMG is not independent if they're working for Chalabi.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
KPMG is not independent if they're working for Chalabi.

Recent accounting scandals not withstanding, the Big 4 auditing firms are universally viewed as third parties. If Corp A hires PWC to be its auditors, does that make it not independent?

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by sgtclub

If Corp A hires PWC to be its auditors, does that make it not independent?

Not really, if I were purchasing corp A's assets, I wouldn't hire PWC to assist me in the purchase. Similarly, if PWC were the UN's auditor and I were investigating PWC, I wouldn't hire PWC to assist me in the investigation.

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me

I believe that registering adults, giving them a short period to organize and campaign, holding elections, and withdrawing from all areas that don't fight us, could have been done a year ago, allowing us to withdraw from more than half of the population centers long ago (as the generals are calling for now, albeit without elections).

That wouldn't have given the Bushie neocons a secular democracy.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me



That wouldn't have given the Bushie neocons a secular democracy.

Not necessarily long-term for the part you quoted (oy vey! you only quoted half of the plan), but it gets rid of Saddam and gives us a credible exit strategy without diminishing internal morale and external stature in the eyes of our enemies.

If (the full) plan worked, even if only for a minute, than we get to point to ourselves as the makers of democracies and the ridders of strongmen.

But what are we talking about? Are you really convinced Bush etc. want a democracy? You sound like you are complaining that they wanted one and its a pipe dream. I'm complaining that I want one, and they've done diddly-squat to make it happen according to any credible and acceptable plan.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
Not really, if I were purchasing corp A's assets, I wouldn't hire PWC to assist me in the purchase. Similarly, if PWC were the UN's auditor and I were investigating PWC, I wouldn't hire PWC to assist me in the investigation.

It all depends on the agreement between the IGC and KPMG.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
Originally posted by sgtclub



Not really, if I were purchasing corp A's assets, I wouldn't hire PWC to assist me in the purchase. Similarly, if PWC were the UN's auditor and I were investigating PWC, I wouldn't hire PWC to assist me in the investigation.

You are obviously not a corporate lawyer. it happens all the time.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by sgtclub
You are obviously not a corporate lawyer. it happens all the time.

And I'm sure the fact that it "happens all the time" means that there isn't any conflict, and that everything is A-OK. And had nothing to do with any of the scandals of the last several years.

So, how late do YOUR clients make mutual fund trades?

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me

Are you really convinced Bush etc. want a democracy? You sound like you are complaining that they wanted one and its a pipe dream. I'm complaining that I want one, and they've done diddly-squat to make it happen according to any credible and acceptable plan.

Yes, an Iraqi democracy that gets anywhere other than theocracy or dictatorwhip in the next ten or twenty years is a pipe dream. And I hate pipe dreams, be they Clinton's foolish attempt to nationalize health care or Bush's foolish attempt to de-Baath and de-Islam Iraq.

My only hope is that the Iraq war fails so badly that it makes it almost impossible for politicians to use the military to pursue pipe dreams of any kind, humanitarian or otherwise.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It all depends on the agreement between the IGC and KPMG.

Hurry up and decide who should look at the facts because it sounds like the facts are really clear:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...4fooded10.html

from Seattle Times Editorial,

Monday, May 10, 2004 - Page updated at 12:00 A.M.

Editorial
The U.N.'s corruption of Iraq's 'Oil for Food'
The oil-for-food program for Iraq was the largest humanitarian-aid program ever undertaken by the United Nations. It appears it also provided the largest opportunity for corruption. Among those with their hand in the cookie jar was, it is alleged, the director of the program.
That man, Benon Sevan, has denied personally cheating. As for others, he told one TV interviewer, "Even if 10 percent of the revenue was stolen, 90 percent got to the people it was intended for. Why does nobody report that?"

Ten percent of the revenue would be $6.7 billion. But the stories coming out of Baghdad, where investigators are going through the records of the Iraqi oil ministry, suggest that 10-percent corruption figure is too low.

I like this part!
"Even if 10 percent of the revenue was stolen, 90 percent got to the people it was intended for. Why does nobody report that?

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city

Yes, an Iraqi democracy that gets anywhere other than theocracy or dictatorwhip in the next ten or twenty years is a pipe dream. And I hate pipe dreams, be they Clinton's foolish attempt to nationalize health care or Bush's foolish attempt to de-Baath and de-Islam Iraq.

It probably does not need to be said, but we'll have to disagree about how impossible it is. To me, democracy is a natural course that fulfills a basic human urge to be acknowledged. There are, of course, other ways to be counted, like being a Sunni under Saddam... woo hoo! they counted more! But I think its a big carrot and a natural catalyst if we promised to facilitate it.

Originally posted by Skeks in the city

My only hope is that the Iraq war fails so badly that it makes it almost impossible for politicians to use the military to pursue pipe dreams of any kind, humanitarian or otherwise.

As long as that failure doesn't cost us our sanity and coherence, or the ability to intimidate our enemies. And as long as that failure still minimizes our casualties. I agree with the sentiment of deterring adventurism and the pursuit of pipe-dreams. But I'd rather the cost be minimized among our people.

Hello

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I mean is there a claim that these soldiers did this to loosen the prisoners up, and make them start talking? I haven't really heard that.

Some of the soldiers involved are saying something to that effect, and there are other rumblings. Who knows what will emerge as evryone scrambles to save their own asses?

[I mean aside from more photographs and videos. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., of the Senate Armed Services Committee noted late last week that some of the undisclosed abuses involve "rape and murder."]

S_A_M

P.S. The calls for Rumsfeld's resignation are not limited to Congressional Democrats and anti-American rags. The Adminstration's favorite Republican Senator -- Chuck Hagel, questioned whether Rumsfeld and Gen. Meyers could lead our armed forces after this. The Economist's most recent cover showed the wired-up prisoner, with the headline "Resign, Rumsfeld."

The Economist's objection is purely practical -- they say his resignation will only help our effort in Iraq -- partly b/c of this abuse, and partly because of a litany of (in their view) failures and screw-ups by Rumsfeld and his civilian team in the aftermath of the conventional war.

{edited for typos}

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me

Kerry and a Repub congress sound okay?

Sounds OK to me.

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Since no one else posted it:

A link to the New Yorker with the newest Hersh column, including a picture of the naked Iraqi cowering in a corridor, surrounded by U.S. MPs, with a German shepherd straining at the lead on either side of him. I don't think that complies with the ARs for use of military working dogs, much less the GC.

http://www.newyorker.com/

Here is what one expert had to say on the subject:

"When I asked retired Major General Charles Hines, who was commandant of the Army’s military-police school during a twenty-eight-year career in military law enforcement, about these reports, he reacted with dismay. 'Turning a dog loose in a room of people? Loosing dogs on prisoners of war? I’ve never heard of it, and it would never have been tolerated,' Hines said. He added that trained police dogs have long been a presence in Army prisons, where they are used for sniffing out narcotics and other contraband among the prisoners, and, occasionally, for riot control. But, he said, 'I would never have authorized it for interrogating or coercing prisoners. If I had, I’d have been put in jail or kicked out of the Army.'"

Let's see if anyone is.


S_A_M

[edited to add the quote and remove a question after I red the article]

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Another quote from Hersh's column:

"Rumsfeld said that he had not actually looked at any of the Abu Ghraib photographs until some of them appeared in press accounts, and hadn’t reviewed the Army’s copies until the day before. When he did, they were 'hard to believe,” he said. “There are other photos that depict . . . acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel, and inhuman.' Later, he said, 'It’s going to get still more terrible, I’m afraid.' Rumsfeld added, 'I failed to recognize how important it was.'"

"NBC News later quoted U.S. military officials as saying that the unreleased photographs showed American soldiers 'severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi prisoner, and ‘acting inappropriately with a dead body.’ The officials said there also was a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys.'"

I don't even have the heart to make the otherwise de rigeur snide partisan comment.

A few pictures like that should be enough to make up the minds of most Iraqis who are still on the fence.

S_A_M