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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It's strange that conservatives spend so much more time worrying about whether the American people support the war than they do worrying about whether we are doing the right things to win it. We are losing, and it has nothing to do with domestic support. It is because we cannot defeat the insurgency, and because the Iraqi government is ineffective and does not have legitimacy (in the Weberian sense).
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First of all we won the war. Full stop. As for containing the insurgency we are not doing as well as we would like. But as insurgencies go, this one could be a hell of a lot worse. The fact that people say we are losing just undermines the whole war effort.
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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I say that this is strange, but part of the explanation is quite simple. If you go to Iraq right now, you have a very good chance of getting killed, particularly if you leave the Green Zone or U.S. bases. For all the happy talk about how the number of deaths is quite low compared to Ypres and Verdun, everyone -- everyone -- understands that for an American to go and walk the streets of Baghdad is akin to suicide. So it's for preferable for conservatives to stay in this country and complain about Democrats than it is for them to go Iraq and get killed.
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You are not talking about Iraq you are talking about Baghdad. There is a lot more to Iraq than Bagdad. Bagdad happen to me in the middle of the one part of the country that didn't support the invasion. The rest of the country overwhelming thinks the fall of Saddam was a good thing. Less than half in the Sunni areas agree with that. It certainly is safer for an American to walk around Kurdistan than it is in certain places in Detroit.
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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The polls says your math is wrong.
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I was not talking about the average voter I was talking about the talking heads.
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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop And what's funny about your complaint here is this: Those of us who opposed the war on prudential grounds were right. We were right, and the rest of you were wrong. Doubtless you were wrong for the best of reasons, just like the Portland Trailblazers surely thought long and hard before they drafted Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan.
Rather than bitch that the war's opponents were right for the wrong reasons, you might devote some bandwidth to figuring out why you guys got it so wrong.
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No - we were right and we can still win the game. You guys just want to throw in the towel in quit. And what is crazy is I don't even think we are behind. But even if we were behind we should not leave until we are sure we can't succeed. Are you sure we can't succeed?
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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
While I disagree about the ex ante assessment of risk, I agree that we must now make the best of the situation. (E.g., by letting John Kerry -- who might have fucked things up -- run the war instead of George W. Bush -- who already had.)
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Yes that would have a been a good move. Put in a Commander and Chief who says that are troops are harassing the population and are rapists murderer's etc.
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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
But, as I said in another post, the White House and the Pentagon have gotten everything they asked for. The defeat is on them.
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Again, your are assuming it is over. It is only over when we decide it is over.
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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
In a concrete way, explain how the war's opponents in the U.S. have "undermined" the cause. What a crock.
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You don't think all the crying by the Democrat leadership about pulling out hasn't inspired the insurgents? "Look their own poweful politicians are demanding they pull out, clearly we must do something right". You don't think every time Howard Dean opens his mouth about this immoral war that that clip isn't played over and over again on Al Jazeera? Every time Murtha says we need to pull out, it is not played again and again on Al Jeerza? Those guys study what is going on in American more than they study the Koran.
Like Bin Ladin said. We are a paper tiger and once we get one bloody nose we will cut and run. All those partisan ranting by those idiots just encourages our enemies more and boosts their morale.
The Democrats have never come up with a reasonable alternative strategy. They have just complained and critisized and called for a withdrawal. It has all been absorbed by the insurgents.
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