Quote:
Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
I suppose it would not really be a fair comparison for me to note that 39 of 39 Heaven's Gate members were willing to die for what they believed, which would be pretty stupid if they knew there was not, in fact, a UFO accompanying the Hale-Bopp comet. But, I'll mention it anyway.
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Ah but you yourself pointed out the flaw in using that as a comparison. If they died "for what they believed," then it wasn't for something they *knew* is false. Being deluded is a whole different thing.
The disciples wrote about things they saw and heard over a 3+ year period. They preached it and were killed for it. The obvious options are:
1. They collectively decided to make it all up and, knowing it was all a complete crock of shit, each decided to continue perpetrating the lie even though it meant they were killed in fairly gruesome and painful ways. This is what I said would be pretty stupid.
2A. Jesus was the ultimate con man and completely pulled the wool over their eyes so they believed what they saw and wrote about was the truth and were willing to die for it. 3+ years is a long time to pull off a scam and convince people they were seeing miracles but it is within the realm of possibilities. And as you pointed out, 39 HGers believed they would be going to a UFO after they offed themselves (though I question whether they'd persist through torture and painful death) and Jim Jones followers drank the Kool-aid.
2B. They were so freaked out after their leader was crucified that they had mental breakdowns and imagined a resurrection, miracles, etc. Thus deluded, they were willing to die for what they believed. This is the option that makes the most sense to me, from a believer's standpoint, though I obviously don't subscribe to that explanation. In both 2A and B, they would have been dying for something they believed to be true but were deluded. This is the Heaven's Gaters and Jim Jones and Koresh followers, et al.
3. This was all made up much later by someone else. I hesitate to list this one because it isn't supported by manuscript dating.
4. It was the truth and thus worth dying for. This is the option y'all can't buy.
I understand non-belief -- I didn't leave all my brains at the church door. My analysis just comes down differently than yours.
End of sermonette of the day. I don't intend to make the FB into my personal soapbox, but y'all do a lot of anti-Christianity preaching so sometimes I have to put my $.02 in.
Now I have to get off line so I can watch The Bachelor (speaking of people who are deluded).
Rev. Fugee
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