Objectively intelligent.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Militarization of law enforcement + Trumpian lack of accountability + Nixonian law & order + election year = Portland

Yeah, but how do they see this playing out well for them? They were already getting their chaos narrative out of it before the Feds arrived. All they could do is provoke Moms and other “normal” people to join in.

I guess maybe they are either not smart enough to foresee that or just want to be able to claim to be doing something, or both.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

Yeah, but how do they see this playing out well for them? They were already getting their chaos narrative out of it before the Feds arrived. All they could do is provoke Moms and other “normal” people to join in.

I guess maybe they are either not smart enough to foresee that or just want to be able to claim to be doing something, or both.

Their reaction is always to double down. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Here it doesn't seem to be working.

A question I have is, if not for the video of Pettibone (I think that was his name) getting grabbed and thrown into a minivan, would people have reacted so strongly to the federal presence? It seems like that video made thinks real and aroused a backlash, much mores than newspaper stories about what was going on. The aggressive response might have worked if the story was, "federal police suppress looters and rioters that Portland was too soft to do anything about." But when the story is "anonymous men in riot gear kidnapping people and tear-gassing moms," not so much. Was the second narrative inevitable? Maybe, maybe not.

Also, don't forget that the White House generally is operating within an epistemic bubble. Their sources are ideologically right. It often surely makes them think things will play better than they do.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Their reaction is always to double down. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Here it doesn't seem to be working.

A question I have is, if not for the video of Pettibone (I think that was his name) getting grabbed and thrown into a minivan, would people have reacted so strongly to the federal presence? It seems like that video made thinks real and aroused a backlash, much mores than newspaper stories about what was going on. The aggressive response might have worked if the story was, "federal police suppress looters and rioters that Portland was too soft to do anything about." But when the story is "anonymous men in riot gear kidnapping people and tear-gassing moms," not so much. Was the second narrative inevitable? Maybe, maybe not.

Also, don't forget that the White House generally is operating within an epistemic bubble. Their sources are ideologically right. It often surely makes them think things will play better than they do.

The right around here is actually defending the kidnapping as a "common tactic" to more safely arrest protesters when they aren't surrounded by a mob (and protesters have been fighting back/interfering with arrests when they are in the crowd).

I think just as problematic are 1) shooting a kid in the head as he stood with a boom box above his head; and 2) wailing on and gassing a 50-ish year old navy vet. Gassing the moms is the cherry on top.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally Posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone

The right around here is actually defending the kidnapping as a "common tactic" to more safely arrest protesters when they aren't surrounded by a mob (and protesters have been fighting back/interfering with arrests when they are in the crowd).

I think just as problematic are 1) shooting a kid in the head as he stood with a boom box above his head; and 2) wailing on and gassing a 50-ish year old navy vet. Gassing the moms is the cherry on top.

Not Bob would be pleased to know, however, that there are some cute hippie chicks working the day shift at Riot Ribs...

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone

The right around here is actually defending the kidnapping as a "common tactic" to more safely arrest protesters when they aren't surrounded by a mob (and protesters have been fighting back/interfering with arrests when they are in the crowd).

When Less said we would all wish we had Second Amendment rights, I think he meant the Fourth Amendment.

I think just as problematic are 1) shooting a kid in the head as he stood with a boom box above his head; and 2) wailing on and gassing a 50-ish year old navy vet. Gassing the moms is the cherry on top.

Absolutely -- but did 1) get as much attention? And 2) happened after people who hadn't been protesting (like our good Navy vet) saw what was going on and turned out. I guess what I'm asking is: The federal "law enforcement" (in the Orwellian sense) response prompted a backlash. Was that inevitable, or was it sometimes fortuitous that the right stories to drive it got attention?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Adder

Yeah, but how do they see this playing out well for them? They were already getting their chaos narrative out of it before the Feds arrived. All they could do is provoke Moms and other “normal” people to join in.

I guess maybe they are either not smart enough to foresee that or just want to be able to claim to be doing something, or both.

A friend of mine who was in special ops in a previous life:

There is a manual, FM3-24, produced by the Pentagon called Counterinsurgency.

What is happening is taken directly from this manual. I don't think it is on purpose, I think it is pure stupidity, but the administration is doing exactly what I would do to get the populace to turn on the government.

ETA link to manual here. He suggests reading chapter 4, about 40 paragraphs in. There are some quibbles from other SpecOps types in the thread on what the goal is and whether it's on purpose or not. If you want to read the discussion PM me and I'll direct you to it on Facebook (it's on another friend's open post).

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by oliver_wendell_ramone

not bob would be pleased to know, however, that there are some cute hippie chicks working the day shift at riot ribs...

meat is murder!

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

meat is murder!

Morrissey would not be pleased. Then again, he would probably be rooting for the stormtroopers.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Militarization of law enforcement + Trumpian lack of accountability + Nixonian law & order + election year = Portland

I agree, but would say it a bit differently. These are the death throes of a disorganized "administration" with no interest in governing, or perhaps the capacity to govern, through a crisis of the dimension faced. It's mad, reflexive, adolescents lashing out in response to an ugly realization: They Blew This Very Badly. Not in terms of organization or approach. They don't care about that. In terms of politics, the only thing about which they give a shit.

They fucked up the politics, terrifically.

A friend who worked for Bush II laughed to me today, "How much would his lead be today had he tackled the situation, made it his cause, and paid attention? He could have embraced masks early and MAGA masks would be everywhere... free advertising."

Instead, they doubled down on the lowest common denominator of voter -- the ugliest of dimwits. And it backfired, spectacularly. And now they're running against their own stupidity and incompetence, and Biden need only sit in the basement and laugh to the finish line.

This isn't true Nixonian law 'n order. This is the earliest of many hail marys and flailing drunken roundhouses to come... It's collateral insanity accruing from a meltdown at the top.

All that's left is for it to accelerate to the point that the inner sanctum loses faith and starts defecting. Perhaps then he actually shoots a protestor on 5th Avenue.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I agree, but would say it a bit differently. These are the death throes of a disorganized "administration" with no interest in governing, or perhaps the capacity to govern, through a crisis of the dimension faced. It's mad, reflexive, adolescents lashing out in response to an ugly realization: They Blew This Very Badly. Not in terms of organization or approach. They don't care about that. In terms of politics, the only thing about which they give a shit.

They fucked up the politics, terrifically.

A friend who worked for Bush II laughed to me today, "How much would his lead be today had he tackled the situation, made it his cause, and paid attention? He could have embraced masks early and MAGA masks would be everywhere... free advertising."

Instead, they doubled down on the lowest common denominator of voter -- the ugliest of dimwits. And it backfired, spectacularly. And now they're running against their own stupidity and incompetence, and Biden need only sit in the basement and laugh to the finish line.

This isn't true Nixonian law 'n order. This is the earliest of many hail marys and flailing drunken roundhouses to come... It's collateral insanity accruing from a meltdown at the top.

All that's left is for it to accelerate to the point that the inner sanctum loses faith and starts defecting. Perhaps then he actually shoots a protestor on 5th Avenue.

That you keep writing about “them” like it’s not you is astounding.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

That you keep writing about “them” like it’s not you is astounding.

You’re such a tool.

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

meat is murder!

Meat is murdelicious.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

That you keep writing about “them” like it’s not you is astounding.

Who do you write these posts for?

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

A friend of mine who was in special ops in a previous life:



ETA link to manual here. He suggests reading chapter 4, about 40 paragraphs in. There are some quibbles from other SpecOps types in the thread on what the goal is and whether it's on purpose or not. If you want to read the discussion PM me and I'll direct you to it on Facebook (it's on another friend's open post).

Unless the rank and file has turned on 45 (in exchange for him getting a finders fee for bounties on troops) and had a mole feed it to him. Not sure what your sources say (I have none) but I think there's no way they follow him into something stupid. I think Biden wins and 45 gets escorted out in cuffs.