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09-26-2020, 03:57 PM
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#3346
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,211
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Just vote for the party that aligns with the position you've held forever about abortion and women's rights. Pretty clear which party is better there.
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I'm not a one issue voter, and I don't see anyone flipping Roe anyway.
I am also truly disgusted with the Democratic Party at this point, and with the Left. They call Trump a would-be authoritarian, and I think they're correct in that. But they practice the same exact behaviors. They've allowed a crowd of fake intellectuals and radicals to create and enforce an orthodoxy based on lies.
The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is nuts. Fucking card carrying crazy. As batshit insane as the right wing of the GOP.
Defund the police?
You're either anti-racist or you're racist?
We all must follow the teachings of DeAngelo?
Trump is an existential threat to the nation?
This is Manichean nonsense.
For four years, I have listened to people assert that the only response to Donald Trump must be "resist!" No nuanced view can be tolerated. No credit may be given to him even when he accidentally does something good. He must be fought and assailed at every turn and anything less than that is an illegitimate view. It is a view which is dangerous and must be shut down. He who countenances Trump, shrugs at him, is enabling a dangerous racist enemy.
Bullshit. And fuck you. Seriously, people who traffic in the sort of thing --fuck off with your overwrought, and shrill (yes, shrill) and hysterical bullshit.
Those people have gone too far. I'm tired of them. I'm tired of not even being able to coolly discuss politics with them at dinner. I'm tired of their status signalling. Do they not know that people of actual status see right through them? That it's immediately apparent they adopt a horrified look whenever Trump is discussed because they think this is the posture one who wishes to telecast he is educated and professional adopts?
Trump was and is a divider, but that's a tango, and he's enjoyed more willing dupes who'll play dance partner than any con man in history. The legions of people who'll blame him for creating the racism and classism we see in law enforcement today are clueless. The causes of that are myriad, go back decades, and Joe Biden and Hillary have a lot more to do with causing today's racism in the justice system than Trump.
But hey, why get into complexities? Instead, adopt a childlike view that Trump is a racist and that he's putting black lives at risk, rather than a system that was created by Ds and Rs over many years is actually doing it. Instead, just make it simple:
Trump Bad! He's racist. Get rid of him and we'll help stop racism!
If you believe that, you're a fool. Yet something that dumb has been written here every week since Trump has been in office. Just last week, a person with a sophomore understanding of politics asserted that he was resistant to Trump because Trump put "people of color" in danger. (I wonder if this person could explain why Trump is actually outpolling Biden among Latinos in certain states... Are all those Latinos deluded? And I wonder if he's spoken to any Indian people about Trump. A lot of Indians invest in and operate real estate. Wanna guess how they'll be voting?)
I'm sick of dumb people on both sides of this debate. I'm also sick of Trump. But I'm also unwilling to enable the Democratic Party at this point because I think it's a cynical shit party which is only interested in its own power.
The old line wing of the D Party, Biden's people, are scumbags. They are only interested in keeping control of their party, and they'll placate the lunatic progressives with whatever crazy bullshit they demand simply to stay on top. They suck as much as the Republicans.
Both parties deserve to lose, and the Trump MAGA people who want to take us back to the 50s, and the progressives who want to enforce new culture codes on us deserve to burn themselves out and be relegated to the dustbin of history.
So to both sides of this election: Take your MAGA hat, and take your woke fist in the air...
And shove them up your asses. I'll be staying home on November 3.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
Last edited by sebastian_dangerfield; 09-26-2020 at 04:03 PM..
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09-27-2020, 11:06 AM
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#3347
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I'm not a one issue voter, and I don't see anyone flipping Roe anyway.
I am also truly disgusted with the Democratic Party at this point, and with the Left. They call Trump a would-be authoritarian, and I think they're correct in that. But they practice the same exact behaviors. They've allowed a crowd of fake intellectuals and radicals to create and enforce an orthodoxy based on lies.
The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is nuts. Fucking card carrying crazy. As batshit insane as the right wing of the GOP.
Defund the police?
You're either anti-racist or you're racist?
We all must follow the teachings of DeAngelo?
Trump is an existential threat to the nation?
This is Manichean nonsense.
For four years, I have listened to people assert that the only response to Donald Trump must be "resist!" No nuanced view can be tolerated. No credit may be given to him even when he accidentally does something good. He must be fought and assailed at every turn and anything less than that is an illegitimate view. It is a view which is dangerous and must be shut down. He who countenances Trump, shrugs at him, is enabling a dangerous racist enemy.
Bullshit. And fuck you. Seriously, people who traffic in the sort of thing --fuck off with your overwrought, and shrill (yes, shrill) and hysterical bullshit.
Those people have gone too far. I'm tired of them. I'm tired of not even being able to coolly discuss politics with them at dinner. I'm tired of their status signalling. Do they not know that people of actual status see right through them? That it's immediately apparent they adopt a horrified look whenever Trump is discussed because they think this is the posture one who wishes to telecast he is educated and professional adopts?
Trump was and is a divider, but that's a tango, and he's enjoyed more willing dupes who'll play dance partner than any con man in history. The legions of people who'll blame him for creating the racism and classism we see in law enforcement today are clueless. The causes of that are myriad, go back decades, and Joe Biden and Hillary have a lot more to do with causing today's racism in the justice system than Trump.
But hey, why get into complexities? Instead, adopt a childlike view that Trump is a racist and that he's putting black lives at risk, rather than a system that was created by Ds and Rs over many years is actually doing it. Instead, just make it simple:
Trump Bad! He's racist. Get rid of him and we'll help stop racism!
If you believe that, you're a fool. Yet something that dumb has been written here every week since Trump has been in office. Just last week, a person with a sophomore understanding of politics asserted that he was resistant to Trump because Trump put "people of color" in danger. (I wonder if this person could explain why Trump is actually outpolling Biden among Latinos in certain states... Are all those Latinos deluded? And I wonder if he's spoken to any Indian people about Trump. A lot of Indians invest in and operate real estate. Wanna guess how they'll be voting?)
I'm sick of dumb people on both sides of this debate. I'm also sick of Trump. But I'm also unwilling to enable the Democratic Party at this point because I think it's a cynical shit party which is only interested in its own power.
The old line wing of the D Party, Biden's people, are scumbags. They are only interested in keeping control of their party, and they'll placate the lunatic progressives with whatever crazy bullshit they demand simply to stay on top. They suck as much as the Republicans.
Both parties deserve to lose, and the Trump MAGA people who want to take us back to the 50s, and the progressives who want to enforce new culture codes on us deserve to burn themselves out and be relegated to the dustbin of history.
So to both sides of this election: Take your MAGA hat, and take your woke fist in the air...
And shove them up your asses. I'll be staying home on November 3.
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I knew you'd find an excuse to support Trump. You've got a Democratic nominee who is among the more moderate we've put forward, and still decide something some lefty who doesn't really like Biden and didn't support him said on the interwebs makes you cry, so you're ok with four more years.
Good thing my son is now a Pennsylvania voter.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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09-27-2020, 12:58 PM
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#3348
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,211
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I knew you'd find an excuse to support Trump. You've got a Democratic nominee who is among the more moderate we've put forward, and still decide something some lefty who doesn't really like Biden and didn't support him said on the interwebs makes you cry, so you're ok with four more years.
Good thing my son is now a Pennsylvania voter.
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I’m not supporting Trump. My message to Trump is “Fuck off. Even though it helps me, you do not deserve my vote (or anyone else’s).”
My message to the Democrats is the same.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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09-27-2020, 11:28 PM
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#3349
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,211
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I’m not supporting Trump. My message to Trump is “Fuck off. Even though it helps me, you do not deserve my vote (or anyone else’s).”
My message to the Democrats is the same.
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Tell me you’re going to run things like HW and I’m your man. I just don’t want any surprises. Kamala is buyable. I personally detest that, but in politicians, it’s not a bad thing. It offers predictability.
Just don’t kill the economic uptick we saw before Covid. And don’t let some dimwit say we need a national shutdown (which would start a civil war).
Tell me we’ll have a malleable dummy who won’t do much. I want to hear that and I’m cool. His tax plan isn’t terrible and it’s avoidable.
Or tell me I’m on board a Bernie-like train with real radical change to follow. If I’m going to go in that direction, I prefer to go full bore.
But don’t sell me some moderate who’ll kill the economy with death by a thousand deduction rollbacks and regulatory irritation. If I’m going to get fucked, fuck me. Don’t play “just the tip.” Either way, I’m getting an STD.
And shut down these fucking moral panics. Except justice reform. And aim that one at the legislators. The cops are just instruments, and attacking them exclusively lets “tough on crime” legislators and prosecutors off the hook.
One last item: Next stimulus is a pile of money Directly To The Poor. No money for local govts. Money to the poor, so they can survive. Local and state gives can wait and get the money from tax revenue as the poor spend it. And a special bailout for bars, restaurants, theatres, etc. Give those people the money. Leave the local and state govts to adjust their tax anticipation.
Gimme all that, I can vote Biden.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
Last edited by sebastian_dangerfield; 09-27-2020 at 11:42 PM..
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09-28-2020, 10:56 AM
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#3350
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I am beyond a rank!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,162
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Re: We. Are. Fucked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
It's only since Trump has been elected and I've had the temerity to defend him ocassionally and the gall to question the tenets of woke orthodoxy that I've been characterized as acting entirely in self interest.
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What? You were saying that you can't be expected to have empathy before the 2016 election.
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09-28-2020, 11:00 AM
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#3351
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I am beyond a rank!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,162
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I'm not a one issue voter, and I don't see anyone flipping Roe anyway.
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With your track record, I'd be pretty careful making predictions. Especially ones that literally everyone else disagrees with.
Quote:
ve to lose, and the Trump MAGA people who want to take us back to the 50s, and the progressives who want to enforce new culture codes on us deserve to burn themselves out and be relegated to the dustbin of history.
So to both sides of this election: Take your MAGA hat, and take your woke fist in the air...
And shove them up your asses. I'll be staying home on November 3.
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My god are you an idiot.
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09-28-2020, 01:10 PM
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#3352
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 33,057
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski
Jill Stein's party does too. Probably Johnson's (or whatever his name was) too. Need to be more specific here.
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Just vote for the party that aligns with the position you've held forever about abortion and women's rights, and that has a chance in hell of winning.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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09-28-2020, 01:25 PM
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#3353
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 33,057
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I'm not a one issue voter, and I don't see anyone flipping Roe anyway.
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No, to do that you would have to replace Anthony Kennedy with someone farther to the right, and you'd have to have a really solid conservative majority, at least 6-3, so that you could still lose one. There's no sign of that, is there?
Quote:
I am also truly disgusted with the Democratic Party at this point, and with the Left. They call Trump a would-be authoritarian, and I think they're correct in that. But they practice the same exact behaviors. They've allowed a crowd of fake intellectuals and radicals to create and enforce an orthodoxy based on lies.
The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is nuts. Fucking card carrying crazy. As batshit insane as the right wing of the GOP.
Defund the police?
You're either anti-racist or you're racist?
We all must follow the teachings of DeAngelo?
Trump is an existential threat to the nation?
This is Manichean nonsense.
For four years, I have listened to people assert that the only response to Donald Trump must be "resist!" No nuanced view can be tolerated. No credit may be given to him even when he accidentally does something good. He must be fought and assailed at every turn and anything less than that is an illegitimate view. It is a view which is dangerous and must be shut down. He who countenances Trump, shrugs at him, is enabling a dangerous racist enemy.
Bullshit. And fuck you. Seriously, people who traffic in the sort of thing --fuck off with your overwrought, and shrill (yes, shrill) and hysterical bullshit.
Those people have gone too far. I'm tired of them. I'm tired of not even being able to coolly discuss politics with them at dinner. I'm tired of their status signalling. Do they not know that people of actual status see right through them? That it's immediately apparent they adopt a horrified look whenever Trump is discussed because they think this is the posture one who wishes to telecast he is educated and professional adopts?
Trump was and is a divider, but that's a tango, and he's enjoyed more willing dupes who'll play dance partner than any con man in history. The legions of people who'll blame him for creating the racism and classism we see in law enforcement today are clueless. The causes of that are myriad, go back decades, and Joe Biden and Hillary have a lot more to do with causing today's racism in the justice system than Trump.
But hey, why get into complexities? Instead, adopt a childlike view that Trump is a racist and that he's putting black lives at risk, rather than a system that was created by Ds and Rs over many years is actually doing it. Instead, just make it simple:
Trump Bad! He's racist. Get rid of him and we'll help stop racism!
If you believe that, you're a fool. Yet something that dumb has been written here every week since Trump has been in office. Just last week, a person with a sophomore understanding of politics asserted that he was resistant to Trump because Trump put "people of color" in danger. (I wonder if this person could explain why Trump is actually outpolling Biden among Latinos in certain states... Are all those Latinos deluded? And I wonder if he's spoken to any Indian people about Trump. A lot of Indians invest in and operate real estate. Wanna guess how they'll be voting?)
I'm sick of dumb people on both sides of this debate. I'm also sick of Trump. But I'm also unwilling to enable the Democratic Party at this point because I think it's a cynical shit party which is only interested in its own power.
The old line wing of the D Party, Biden's people, are scumbags. They are only interested in keeping control of their party, and they'll placate the lunatic progressives with whatever crazy bullshit they demand simply to stay on top. They suck as much as the Republicans.
Both parties deserve to lose, and the Trump MAGA people who want to take us back to the 50s, and the progressives who want to enforce new culture codes on us deserve to burn themselves out and be relegated to the dustbin of history.
So to both sides of this election: Take your MAGA hat, and take your woke fist in the air...
And shove them up your asses. I'll be staying home on November 3.
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I drove to the grocery store yesterday and coming the other way down the street was a MAGA parade, trucks honking their horns and flying their Trump flags and causing a traffic jam. The point of the exercise was just to express themselves, and to get in the face of the large majority of people who live in this area and who will vote for Biden.
The idiocy of voting against Biden because he beat all of the progressives you dislike so much, because some of his supporters irritate you.
You are just like the Trump voters in the MAGA parades, in your own way. Go get yourself a flag.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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09-28-2020, 01:52 PM
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#3354
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Flower
Posts: 8,434
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I knew you'd find an excuse to support Trump. You've got a Democratic nominee who is among the more moderate we've put forward, and still decide something some lefty who doesn't really like Biden and didn't support him said on the interwebs makes you cry, so you're ok with four more years.
Good thing my son is now a Pennsylvania voter.
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I think I understand your and Adder’s confusion. For example, you are wondering how Sebastian, who previously complained that Biden is too moderate and Harris is too corporate, now refuses to vote for them because the Democratic Party is gripped by some ultra-left woke orthodoxy. Adder points out similar inconsistencies between what Sebastian says now and what he said previously. I was also confused until I remembered that Sebastian is a liar. He lies about pretty much everything. If you read his posts through that lens, it explains a lot.
__________________
Inside every man lives the seed of a flower.
If he looks within he finds beauty and power.
I am not sorry.
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09-28-2020, 02:33 PM
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#3355
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower
I think I understand your and Adder’s confusion. For example, you are wondering how Sebastian, who previously complained that Biden is too moderate and Harris is too corporate, now refuses to vote for them because the Democratic Party is gripped by some ultra-left woke orthodoxy. Adder points out similar inconsistencies between what Sebastian says now and what he said previously. I was also confused until I remembered that Sebastian is a liar. He lies about pretty much everything. If you read his posts through that lens, it explains a lot.
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Thank you. It's all too easy in this day and time to assume good faith with respect to our peers, rather than put them in the category usually reserved for those with brains long addled by Fox News and by constant banging on the ground while kowtowing to Trump. I will try to be gentle in the future, and remember that I am dealing with someone who has "challenges".
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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09-28-2020, 03:52 PM
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#3356
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,211
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
No, to do that you would have to replace Anthony Kennedy with someone farther to the right, and you'd have to have a really solid conservative majority, at least 6-3, so that you could still lose one. There's no sign of that, is there?
I drove to the grocery store yesterday and coming the other way down the street was a MAGA parade, trucks honking their horns and flying their Trump flags and causing a traffic jam. The point of the exercise was just to express themselves, and to get in the face of the large majority of people who live in this area and who will vote for Biden.
The idiocy of voting against Biden because he beat all of the progressives you dislike so much, because some of his supporters irritate you.
You are just like the Trump voters in the MAGA parades, in your own way. Go get yourself a flag.
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It's hard to articulate fully. And it changes a lot.
But start with this bedrock: I am generally oppositional to politics and people who hold strong beliefs in matters political. I have an immediate revulsion to people who "resist," people who join any movement. (I can see resisting Putin, or Stalin, or Mao, but Trump? You don't get hysterical in response to a con man.)
Anti-Trumpism also has a religious feel to it. And that religious fervor has bled into other "movements." The freakout over Kavanaugh, "women must be believed (even if its clearly bullshit foisted by Avenatti)," flip the patriarchy, identity politics is excusable and noble, etc. These things are all deeply irrational, sophomoric, illogical, gaudily emotional, and dumb.
You're right -- I should not lump Biden in with that train of screwballs on the left. He is moderate. He'll be a fine president. The world will keep spinning and hopefully, he will in a Clintonite fashion keep his hands off the economy and allow a recovery to continue.
It is difficult, however, to hear both sides of this debate. First, because as I said, I reflexively find myself annoyed by people who get so upset about politics (I admit I do care about general freedom, but that's easy to defend... people who seek positive rights and are indignant about it annoy me*).
I think to pick a side requires one to join. I couldn't join Trump. (I can't even join a tennis league, as it seems too much commitment.) Whatever it is, if I see a ton of people fervently behind it... I'm not. Because it'll take some suspension of disbelief, as joining any movement ultimately does.
And allowing that baggage to infect my view is a bit of an unfair way to treat Biden. Because Biden isn't bad guy. He's just the banner under which a lot of people for whom I have no respect and think are silly are congealing in an anti-Trump freakout.
I'm not unsympathetic to the argument of Never-Trumpers in favor of Biden. And I'm sympathetic to the arguments of moderates. The desire for normalcy is quite appealing. The argument that voting for Biden (or whoever is running against Trump) is a moral imperative, OTOH, is childish.
And the argument staying home or voting third party is a vote against Biden still just breaks my brain. The only vote against Biden is a vote for Trump. And the only vote against Trump is a vote for Biden. Logically, if one is voting third party or staying home, he is not voting for or against either. He is depriving both of his vote. The kind of dumb that asserts it is voting against only one of the two candidates is a level of stupidity that drives me nuts. But it's a common form of dumb, like a lot of the arguments we're seeing today. The Left is very emotional, in an extreme form of moral panic. Huge turn-off.
So I don't know. Maybe I will vote. Last week I told a Republican friend I was voting for Biden. This week, I listened to few podcasts dissecting Ibrahim Kendri and thought, "Man, these fucking progressives are not only nuts, but dumb as fucking fence posts." I don't like this new SCOTUS judge, so that will make me want to throw out Trump and see McConnell boiled in oil. But then I'll hear a bunch of whiny overwrought nonsense and illogical shit from the Democrats grilling her and wish there was a way we could fit them all for cement shoes.
And after being grossed out by both sides and thinking maybe the country deserves to crash because it is filled with morons - and that includes those who'd fancy themselves elites, and their deplorable counterparts, who together power the idiot-go-round of American society - I'll wish I could vote for Lyndon LaRouche, or Pigasus.
I am at heart a vacant golf course quasi-libertarian who just likes to complain. I should should own it already.
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* I see abortion as a negative right, the govt having no authority to tell a woman what she may or may not do with her body.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
Last edited by sebastian_dangerfield; 09-28-2020 at 03:57 PM..
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09-28-2020, 04:18 PM
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#3357
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,211
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Thank you. It's all too easy in this day and time to assume good faith with respect to our peers, rather than put them in the category usually reserved for those with brains long addled by Fox News and by constant banging on the ground while kowtowing to Trump. I will try to be gentle in the future, and remember that I am dealing with someone who has "challenges".
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I change my mind. Like every afternoon. Flower can say that's lying. You can say that's me showing an underlying consistent bias. Ty can say its because I'm a closet conservative.
In actuality, I'm a somewhat rootless relativist. Almost any argument will appeal to me at some level, and so one day I'm here, the next I'm there. And if I think you really care deeply about something, I'll criticize it. Maybe it's jealousy... or perhaps your caring makes me have to reconsider my view that life is meaningless. I've banked a lot on the notion that it goes nowhere and one might as well just indulge and have fun. If I were to find there were an afterlife, even a good one, or some existential reckoning during which not having taken a stand of any significant kind or held any particular view shared by others would cause me suffering, I'd be seriously pissed.
It used to be an act, but the cynicism has caved in the roof of my personality and so when I say one thing one day, one thing the next, and I defend someone like Trump, it's because, Does it Really Matter?
None of the economic debates we need will ever occur. This divide and conquer game will be played by real elites, using red herrings like race to pit credulous wanna be elites and deluded deplorables against each other, while the real issues go unaddressed. It's painful to watch so many be so duped. But then you think to yourself... People are really fucking stupid.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
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09-28-2020, 04:25 PM
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#3358
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Moderasaurus Rex
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 33,057
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Ty can say its because I'm a closet conservative.
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You may not be a conservative, but you share some important traits with conservatives, including an interest in voting to express who you are and a strong distaste for people who want to use politics to change things.
__________________
“It was fortunate that so few men acted according to moral principle, because it was so easy to get principles wrong, and a determined person acting on mistaken principles could really do some damage." - Larissa MacFarquhar
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09-28-2020, 05:15 PM
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#3359
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 26,211
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You may not be a conservative, but you share some important traits with conservatives, including an interest in voting to express who you are and a strong distaste for people who want to use politics to change things.
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That's fair and very true. But unlike conservatives, I don't want to pass laws to prohibit people from doing things unless those things are non-consensual.
I would actually like to repeal most of the laws the conservatives have passed prohibiting vice and behaviors between consenting adults. I've never understood how anyone could call me socially progressive for supporting gay marriage. Prohibiting gay people from marrying is an infringement on their rights to enjoy all the same relations straight people do. Infringing on relations between consenting adults is anything but conservative. It's officious and over-reaching.
The problem with improving things via politics is most of the people who wish to do so aren't terribly bright. They may sometimes be credentialed (some even have advanced degrees), but they're not real elite thinkers. They're tinkerers, wonks -- people who are sure they know best, filled with big ideas and often able to communicate them in a manner that makes them sound credible to the credulous (or those who wish to seem 'adjacent' to what they think is the smart set).
...And then they almost always fall prey to the law of unintended consequences.
And the reason for a lot of this is because the people who create policy on the Left are maleducated. Take the race issue of the moment. The problems in the communities have as much, if not far more, to do with class than they do with race. Trust me, having defended criminals -- the ladder of severity of sentence for kids committing identical crimes (1 being lightest, 4, harshest) is as follows:
1. Rich white kid
2. Rich black kid
3. Poor white kid
4. Poor black kid
The difference between 3 and 4 is thin enough that it's not worth discussing. But I can't say that to policy people who are reading DiAngelo. We can't have that conversation out loud. Why? Because the serious elites (the seriously monied classes who control policy through lobbying and media) don't allow it. They instead feed easily persuaded well-meaning but credulous people (some of whom you can read here) a new form of religion (anti-racism) and stuff like 1619 (some of which is true, but only tells a fraction of a much more complex tale) and use it to pit them against the Trumpkins.
It's brilliant. One can play on the intellectual insecurity and status seeking of an upper middle class person the likes of us in under five minutes. All one has to do is stroke their ego and pretend to buy into the gestalt they're pontificating about. Oh yes, I'm impressed at your level of enlightenment... go on... fascinating. Oh yes, I hate the Trumpkins too.
I needn't explain how easy it is to manipulate a Trumpkin. That's assumed.
In this cauldron of bullshit intellectualism, policy is crafted. And then its drafted by kids who work on the Hill. It's misguided from the start, and filled with tripe of whatever kind some academic institution is peddling in the moment (recall, Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of shareholder-first capitalism, and neoconservatism, were both purely academic silliness some people on the Hill decided to try for real... and look how that worked out).
So when I hear people ranting about a goofy con man president being an existential danger to "people of color," as one person argued here the other day, I worry about what sort of dumb policy will be offered to remedy Trump's "racism." How stupid will it be? How widely will it miss the economic issues that have actually caused most of the suffering in this country?
If you wonder why I liked Bernie and Yang, despite not liking policy tinkering, or interventions to improve society, it's because they were on the right track. They addressed economics and class first. Reparations, more programs aimed at disadvantaged communities selected by identity -- this is just divide and conquer control. Control of the dumb people here who buy into it, and your dumb Trumpkin cousin drinking beer on a lawn chair in the garage, with his braided beard in between his thumb and finger and his life laid our before him like a thunderhead.
Policy should only be crafted sparingly and wisely. It should never be crafted by the kind of mind that would become a Trumper, or an anti-Trumper. Laws by dupes for dupes are a lot of what's driven us into this ditch.
I'm not conservative. I'm anti-dumb.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
Last edited by sebastian_dangerfield; 09-28-2020 at 05:18 PM..
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09-28-2020, 05:27 PM
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#3360
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 20,182
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Re: Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
That's fair and very true. But unlike conservatives, I don't want to pass laws to prohibit people from doing things unless those things are non-consensual.
I would actually like to repeal most of the laws the conservatives have passed prohibiting vice and behaviors between consenting adults. I've never understood how anyone could call me socially progressive for supporting gay marriage. Prohibiting gay people from marrying is an infringement on their rights to enjoy all the same relations straight people do. Infringing on relations between consenting adults is anything but conservative. It's officious and over-reaching.
The problem with improving things via politics is most of the people who wish to do so aren't terribly bright. They may sometimes be credentialed (some even have advanced degrees), but they're not real elite thinkers. They're tinkerers, wonks -- people who are sure they know best, filled with big ideas and often able to communicate them in a manner that makes them sound credible to the credulous (or those who wish to seem 'adjacent' to what they think is the smart set).
...And then they almost always fall prey to the law of unintended consequences.
And the reason for a lot of this is because the people who create policy on the Left are maleducated. Take the race issue of the moment. The problems in the communities have as much, if not far more, to do with class than they do with race. Trust me, having defended criminals -- the ladder of severity of sentence for kids committing identical crimes (1 being lightest, 4, harshest) is as follows:
1. Rich white kid
2. Rich black kid
3. Poor white kid
4. Poor black kid
The difference between 3 and 4 is thin enough that it's not worth discussing. But I can't say that to policy people who are reading DiAngelo. We can't have that conversation out loud. Why? Because the serious elites (the seriously monied classes who control policy through lobbying and media) don't allow it. They instead feed easily persuaded well-meaning but credulous people (some of whom you can read here) a new form of religion (anti-racism) and stuff like 1619 (some of which is true, but only tells a fraction of a much more complex tale) and use it to pit them against the Trumpkins.
It's brilliant. One can play on the intellectual insecurity and status seeking of an upper middle class person the likes of us in under five minutes. All one has to do is stroke their ego and pretend to buy into the gestalt they're pontificating about. Oh yes, I'm impressed at your level of enlightenment... go on... fascinating. Oh yes, I hate the Trumpkins too.
I needn't explain how easy it is to manipulate a Trumpkin. That's assumed.
In this cauldron of bullshit intellectualism, policy is crafted. And then its drafted by kids who work on the Hill. It's misguided from the start, and filled with tripe of whatever kind some academic institution is peddling in the moment (recall, Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of shareholder-first capitalism, and neoconservatism, were both purely academic silliness some people on the Hill decided to try for real... and look how that worked out).
So when I hear people ranting about a goofy con man president being an existential danger to "people of color," as one person argued here the other day, I worry about what sort of dumb policy will be offered to remedy Trump's "racism." How stupid will it be? How widely will it miss the economic issues that have actually caused most of the suffering in this country?
If you wonder why I liked Bernie and Yang, despite not liking policy tinkering, or interventions to improve society, it's because they were on the right track. They addressed economics and class first. Reparations, more programs aimed at disadvantaged communities selected by identity -- this is just divide and conquer control. Control of the dumb people here who buy into it, and your dumb Trumpkin cousin drinking beer on a lawn chair in the garage, with his braided beard in between his thumb and finger and his life laid our before him like a thunderhead.
Policy should only be crafted sparingly and wisely. It should never be crafted by the kind of mind that would become a Trumper, or an anti-Trumper. Laws by dupes for dupes are a lot of what's driven us into this ditch.
I'm not conservative. I'm anti-dumb.
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Flower, this is going to be really hard. But I'm trying. Really I am.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
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