Objectively intelligent.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

That's exactly the wrong way to think about it. It's not a binary world, where things are categorically safe or unsafe. There is some risk to, say, eating at a restaurant, or going to the DMV, or having a kid go to school, or getting a haircut. The way to think about it is NOT: well, it's safe for my kid to go to school, so it must be safe to do all those things -- I'm going to do them all. It's more like, I going to get a haircut today, so I'm not going to compound the risk by eating out and going to the DMV. If you want to balance COVID risk and living your life, you have to think about what cumulative risk you're willing to take, not just apply a simple go/no-go heuristic for everything in your life. Too many people doing the latter.

Right and also why trick or treating isn’t “safe” despite a single outdoor brief exchange at the door being “safe.” Everything has risk and each risk is cumulative.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

A friend of mine had it, jogged daily, smoked, and drank thru it, but felt like shit (uniquely as opposed to the hangovers), and only learned she'd had it thru two later antibody tests. She was pissed at the person she knows gave it to her. Fast forward a month, she was hit with it again, but recognized it this time. It passed much more quickly. She believes it was a reinfection. But I think you're right -- it's a relapse. This thing may work like Epstein Barr. You get run down, it reappears.

I had terrific sweats and a fever two nights ago out of the blue. It had been a robust weekend. But I'd also been with someone who'd had covid a few days before, and I'd just had a crazy work week where I'd slept minimally most of the week and was arguing in court a lot on some stressful shit. Mad sweats, fever, crazy nightmares, but then gone as fast as it appeared. I thought I'd need an ER doc. Woke up at 2:30 with my hair wet like I'd showered. Today? 40 minute erg piece without a problem. If I had it, it's a strange dance. Dumb thing hasn't figured out how to run a long route against my liver like a cornerback with an ankle sprain yet.

Your friend didn’t have a reinfection in a month. Especially if she had antibodies. It. Was. A Relapse. They go on for months. Stress and/exercise thought to bring it out. Very common to test positive for two months. Also common to have antibodies 3-6 months later.

Reinfection can only be determined from sequencing each virus. Not that there’s a difference in how it makes you feel; relapse isn’t contagious. Reinfection is.

What you had sounds like some covid symptoms. Also cough, chest tightness, loss of smell and taste, weird dreams, body aches, sometimes fever, pick any 2-3. But they usually don’t resolve in a day though a relapse might.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Your friend didn’t have a reinfection in a month. Especially if she had antibodies. It. Was. A Relapse. They go on for months. Stress and/exercise thought to bring it out. Very common to test positive for two months. Also common to have antibodies 3-6 months later.

I agree. I think this thing is a long term situation for almost all who acquire it. My friend beat herself up resuming work and having too much fun prior to re-emergence of symptoms. Blamed it on re-engaging with people in work, but the relapse theory is all but assuredly the actual reason.

What you had sounds like some covid symptoms. Also cough, chest tightness, loss of smell and taste, weird dreams, body aches, sometimes fever, pick any 2-3. But they usually don’t resolve in a day though a relapse might.

I truly did not think it possible I had it, as I'd no nasal symptoms or shortness of breath. But the other night, I was talking with the fellow who was in same lounge area as me at same time he got it. His symptoms were not 1:1 but similar. Intense sweats, total exhaustion, sleeping for basically a day or more, fever (but only really high at night), vivid disturbing dreams with intermittent wake-ups, severe gastrointestinal pain. He did not lose smell or taste. He was also on GERD drugs, as I am (no idea if this matters). Mine was of 4 day duration, his was five or six. However, mine could have been longer, as I may have written off early onset symptoms as "Irish flu."

I've never had gastrointestinal pain like that before or since. Generalized, but intense and burning. Not like food poisoning, where you wait for the vomit or diarrhea and it's over.

Only difference was this cat had a feeling everywhere like he was sunburned. I recall nothing like that. He also related really intense muscle aches. I don't recall that.

The vivid dreams were odd. I generally don't dream much. Those returned two nights ago.

Sweats were the thing that made me wonder. I mean drenching like you just ran ten miles in high humidity. Quite disgusting, actually. And you get up in the dead of the night with this feeling that I can't describe but one always has when solidly ill-- a recognition "this isn't cancer, or a heart attack... but things are amiss."

I lulled myself to slumber with porn and creating new workout mixes. I think I also bought a really nice fluffy fleece t-shirt online.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Right and also why trick or treating isn’t “safe” despite a single outdoor brief exchange at the door being “safe.” Everything has risk and each risk is cumulative.

Incremental introduction does not build up viral load over time. If the viral load of one exposure is too low to cause issue, a subsequent low viral load is not stacked on the prior one to create adequate load for reaction.

If I go to the store every day, my cumulative risk of getting hit with a significant dose increases. But it's an outlier -- the possibility a person with it sneezes on me. My repeat visits from day to day do not create an adequate viral load for infection because I am incrementally adding little amounts of virus day to day.

OTOH, massive viral load from significant repeat exposures such as those which killed HC professionals early on in the pandemic do stack. But only because they came in enormous doses quickly over short periods of time.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

So what should Rudy's next film be named?

Played by the Russians
Hard Drive, 2020
Kumpromat

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Incremental introduction does not build up viral load over time. If the viral load of one exposure is too low to cause issue, a subsequent low viral load is not stacked on the prior one to create adequate load for reaction.

If I go to the store every day, my cumulative risk of getting hit with a significant dose increases. But it's an outlier -- the possibility a person with it sneezes on me. My repeat visits from day to day do not create an adequate viral load for infection because I am incrementally adding little amounts of virus day to day.

OTOH, massive viral load from significant repeat exposures such as those which killed HC professionals early on in the pandemic do stack. But only because they came in enormous doses quickly over short periods of time.

Sort of.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...x.html#contact

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

So what should Rudy's next film be named?

Played by the Russians
Hard Drive, 2020
Kumpromat

Look at the "borat's daughter eats a baby" scene on youtube. movie looks great.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

If x is safe and y is not, you never, any week, do y. But go ahead and do x all you like.



He's not distancing. Failure to distance is, to use the above analogy, a y behavior.



And natural selection is and shall continue to deliver a verdict to them. But I entirely disagree that most Americans or even more than 1/4 of Americans are refusing to wear masks. It's a slice of Trumpland engaging in that behavior. If Trump's base is 35% of voters, and we can thus extrapolate that it is 35% of America generally, I'd generously estimate 1/2 of Trump's base is anti-mask. (But 100% of those who'll show up at rallies.) That's 17.5% of society. The rest of us - even most rational Trump voters - are wearing masks.

I travel through heavy red areas and everyone is wearing masks, and most of these people are Trump voters.

I went to a wedding a few weeks ago where NO ONE wore masks except the people in my family. 62 people. The ceremony was outdoors, but they wanted us to go inside for "the Grand Entrance" and then to eat at tables that were too close together.

Usually I prefer to skip the ceremony and go to the reception. This time, we hightailed out of there as soon as possible after the ceremony. Most of the people there were 20s-30s, but some older as well.

People aren't wearing masks. At least not here.

Cases are lower now than they were this summer, but they're slightly increasing every week and officials are getting concerned.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

I went to a wedding a few weeks ago where NO ONE wore masks except the people in my family. 62 people. The ceremony was outdoors, but they wanted us to go inside for "the Grand Entrance" and then to eat at tables that were too close together.

Usually I prefer to skip the ceremony and go to the reception. This time, we hightailed out of there as soon as possible after the ceremony. Most of the people there were 20s-30s, but some older as well.

People aren't wearing masks. At least not here.

Cases are lower now than they were this summer, but they're slightly increasing every week and officials are getting concerned.

That's frightening.

A while back I went to a wake for a hospital administrator I knew. It looked like everyone there was ready for surgery. Masks, Shields, Gloves.

On the other hand, I walk by restaurants and see people with no PPE at all just hanging out, pulling chairs close.

One group knows what they're doing and what a pandemic is. The other, not so much.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

I went to a wedding a few weeks ago where NO ONE wore masks except the people in my family. 62 people. The ceremony was outdoors, but they wanted us to go inside for "the Grand Entrance" and then to eat at tables that were too close together.

Usually I prefer to skip the ceremony and go to the reception. This time, we hightailed out of there as soon as possible after the ceremony. Most of the people there were 20s-30s, but some older as well.

People aren't wearing masks. At least not here.

Cases are lower now than they were this summer, but they're slightly increasing every week and officials are getting concerned.

I watched my uncle’s funeral on live stream outside the funeral parlor. People wore masks when they were inside, but took them off as soon as they got outside and then stood close together in groups and talked and sat at tables (reasonably spaced at least) and ate. Pretty sure it was all in compliance with WI law and everyone was trying to be safe, but I sure would have preferred an outside ceremony in the field next door.

That said, I hugged my aunt and cousin, who would have been the super spreaders had there been and outbreak. As far as I know there was not.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

I watched my uncle’s funeral on live stream outside the funeral parlor. People wore masks when they were inside, but took them off as soon as they got outside and then stood close together in groups and talked and sat at tables (reasonably spaced at least) and ate. Pretty sure it was all in compliance with WI law and everyone was trying to be safe, but I sure would have preferred an outside ceremony in the field next door.

That said, I hugged my aunt and cousin, who would have been the super spreaders had there been and outbreak. As far as I know there was not.

Compliant with Wi law? It isn't law, but here we have "no masks outside IF you can distance." Doesn't everywhere have that?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

I went to a wedding a few weeks ago where NO ONE wore masks except the people in my family. 62 people. The ceremony was outdoors, but they wanted us to go inside for "the Grand Entrance" and then to eat at tables that were too close together.

Usually I prefer to skip the ceremony and go to the reception. This time, we hightailed out of there as soon as possible after the ceremony. Most of the people there were 20s-30s, but some older as well.

People aren't wearing masks. At least not here.

Cases are lower now than they were this summer, but they're slightly increasing every week and officials are getting concerned.

I haven’t been in a restaurant except for takeout, which is usually provided in the lobby.

I frequent a club we belong to, but the rule there is that you must wear masks when standing up from tables, the tables are all spaced very far apart, and the only eating is on the outdoor patios. That’s pretty much how all restaurants that have outdoor seating work in the southeastern part of the state.

The only place I saw rampant disregard for masks was at the beach this summer. I think people there assume that intense sunlight and heat kills the virus immediately. I suspect the reality is that people who can afford to own houses (I wish... we rent with friends) in that place have lots of money, and let’s face it — the rich aren’t getting this disease anywhere near as often as the poor. They’re clueless and lucky. In a bubble.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

I watched my uncle’s funeral on live stream outside the funeral parlor. People wore masks when they were inside, but took them off as soon as they got outside and then stood close together in groups and talked and sat at tables (reasonably spaced at least) and ate. Pretty sure it was all in compliance with WI law and everyone was trying to be safe, but I sure would have preferred an outside ceremony in the field next door.

That said, I hugged my aunt and cousin, who would have been the super spreaders had there been and outbreak. As far as I know there was not.

I don’t wear masks outside unless I’m walking in a crowded area or otherwise in close proximity to people I don’t know are safe.

We have a pretty tightknit group of friends who have dinner together regularly, but no one hugs or gets too close, and dinner is always outside.

I tend to be a bit standoffish anyway, so this whole distancing thing works really well for me. There are certain people I like to hug hello, and kiss. It’s a small crowd. I like “Heismaning” other people with the fistbump, particularly those people who try to hug each other to demonstrate they think the virus is overhyped. (There is a crowd of people who will hug and kiss each other in front of you to broadcast that they think it’s a hoax. I think they think it’s making a statement. And I guess it is… I view them as idiots.)

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I haven’t been in a restaurant except for takeout, which is usually provided in the lobby.

I frequent a club we belong to, but the rule there is that you must wear masks when standing up from tables, the tables are all spaced very far apart, and the only eating is on the outdoor patios. That’s pretty much how all restaurants that have outdoor seating work in the southeastern part of the state.

When it gets cold, how does outdoor dining go? We revert to caveman days?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Compliant with Wi law? It isn't law, but here we have "no masks outside IF you can distance." Doesn't everywhere have that?

It was awhile ago. And Wisconsin is a mess.