Objectively intelligent.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I think the core of it is an oppositional instinct, and I think Sebby's answer that it's all about what Trump said completely misses the point. Trump has fantastic instincts for what his base wants, and he said what he said because he knew how they felt, which was anti-mask.

But much as they like to trigger and pwn the libs, most conservatives don't like to come out and say that they are oppositional.

Nah, tell the dumb people what they want to hear. They group together, tough to beat.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I think the core of it is an oppositional instinct, and I think Sebby's answer that it's all about what Trump said completely misses the point. Trump has fantastic instincts for what his base wants, and he said what he said because he knew how they felt, which was anti-mask.

But much as they like to trigger and pwn the libs, most conservatives don't like to come out and say that they are oppositional.

It's tribal. Yeah, it's that simple. To take the position that it's primarily - initially - about owning the libs, is folly. That's a mere collateral bonus for the anti-mask crowd. The primary driver of anti-mask behavior was what the Orange Man Said. Behind that are secondary drivers, such as "What the Orange Man said makes liberals mad."*

The flip side to it could be seen in dumb conversations I had with mask fanatics. I'd hear, "But the science! The science! Fauci is awesome and I'm down with science."

I wore a mask because a mask made sense. I think the people who broke it down into warring factions are jackasses. The sensible path was John McCain's on global warming: "What's the loss in a mild precaution?" Cost/benefit. Wear a fucking mask.

*ETA: That's unfair. I'm a liberal. Arguing against masks didn't make me angry. I just figured such people slow, or emotional. The people it gets mad are the weird tribal sorts on the left who don't understand that "liberal" thinking is defined by listening to varying views and separating the good from the bad based on logic, and ignoring those who've clearly "picked a side."

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I’m not sure only Trumpers avoid masks. Plenty D voters round here avoid them.

Not here. The anti mask crowd is all right wing tribal morons.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Nah, tell the dumb people what they want to hear. They group together, tough to beat.

All the movements of the moment are secular replacement religions of a sort.

The only people who are going to be burned at the stake are the heretics (and I'm using that term in classical definition).

This makes me interested in perhaps buying a gun. These fucking nuts at the extremes seem to be the rule rather than the exception. (And I've never heard a person with a strong view, who believes in some movement stridently, that I could resist telling why I thought he was deluded. Hopefully, this summer works out like Woodstock, and people start fucking and taking drugs and forget about all these idiotic social/political tribes into which they're being factionalized.)

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I’m not sure only Trumpers avoid masks. Plenty D voters round here avoid them.

And anti-vaxxers are highest in Europe, which hates Trump. One of the reasons their numbers are going up, along with the EU favoring process and price over actual vaccination. Making Brexiteers look smart.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

It's tribal. Yeah, it's that simple. To take the position that it's primarily - initially - about owning the libs, is folly. That's a mere collateral bonus for the anti-mask crowd. The primary driver of anti-mask behavior was what the Orange Man Said. Behind that are secondary drivers, such as "What the Orange Man said makes liberals mad."*

The flip side to it could be seen in dumb conversations I had with mask fanatics. I'd hear, "But the science! The science! Fauci is awesome and I'm down with science."

I wore a mask because a mask made sense. I think the people who broke it down into warring factions are jackasses. The sensible path was John McCain's on global warming: "What's the loss in a mild precaution?" Cost/benefit. Wear a fucking mask.

*ETA: That's unfair. I'm a liberal. Arguing against masks didn't make me angry. I just figured such people slow, or emotional. The people it gets mad are the weird tribal sorts on the left who don't understand that "liberal" thinking is defined by listening to varying views and separating the good from the bad based on logic, and ignoring those who've clearly "picked a side."

Since you seem to have missed what I said in the post you responded to, I'll try again:

To say that the primary driver of anti-mask behavior for conservatives was what Trump said has it backwards. Trump only said that because he knew that's what they wanted him to say, what they felt. But why did they feel that way so strongly? I haven't seen anyone put their finger on that.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Not here. The anti mask crowd is all right wing tribal morons.

I’m getting vaxed tomorrow so I’m ready to spread my wings. Buy me a plane ticket and you and I will walk down Broad Street asking no mask folk who they voted for. Bet you $1000 Biden voters are the majority?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Nah, tell the dumb people what they want to hear. They group together, tough to beat.

I randomly got an appointment yesterday for tomorrow at 4. The wife still nothing. She texted me a story that the zoos are vaccinating great apes before her. I envisioned a tough next few days. But a few moments ago she got a spot for noon tomorrow. Kinehara.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Since you seem to have missed what I said in the post you responded to, I'll try again:

To say that the primary driver of anti-mask behavior for conservatives was what Trump said has it backwards. Trump only said that because he knew that's what they wanted him to say, what they felt. But why did they feel that way so strongly? I haven't seen anyone put their finger on that.

I didn’t miss it. You have it backwards.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I didn’t miss it. You have it backwards.

Then why did he say it?

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

And anti-vaxxers are highest in Europe, which hates Trump. One of the reasons their numbers are going up, along with the EU favoring process and price over actual vaccination. Making Brexiteers look smart.

I meant to link to the article earlier - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/b...id-purdue.html

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Since you seem to have missed what I said in the post you responded to, I'll try again:

To say that the primary driver of anti-mask behavior for conservatives was what Trump said has it backwards. Trump only said that because he knew that's what they wanted him to say, what they felt. But why did they feel that way so strongly? I haven't seen anyone put their finger on that.

A classic chicken and egg problem. Which came first, the suckers or the grifter?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Then why did he say it?

I don't know who you're referring to here. But I think it's Trump? If that's the case -- if you're arguing Trump is claiming that he came out against masks because he sensed that his base was against masks, all I can say is, consider the source.

Trump says all sorts of things for reasons that are sometimes smart or strategic, or plainly stupid, but far more than either of those, inscrutable at a level beyond the deepest mysteries of the universe.

My guess is if he's saying that he was more on the bandwagon than leading it in regard to anti-mask sentiment, it's because he doesn't want to take responsibility for the most epic political blunder of the last 40 years. If he'd taken the virus seriously earlier, pushed masks, and sold them with his name or MAGA on them, he'd still be in office. That realization has to infuriate him. So just as he does in regard to every other failure at his feet, he blames it on someone else. In this case, his base.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I’m getting vaxed tomorrow so I’m ready to spread my wings. Buy me a plane ticket and you and I will walk down Broad Street asking no mask folk who they voted for. Bet you $1000 Biden voters are the majority?

What is the reasoning behind the argument Biden supporters are the majority of anti-maskers? You say this, but there's no explanation.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

When I get someone in PHV, I create my own certificate for each admittee, including calligraphy text reading “It was an honor to admit you. Practice in peace.” In Latin. I also include on the certificate a small pencil drawing of a Fisher Cat. Because those things are bad ass.

I want this. We may need to find new local. Will you work for free?