Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Compared to people walking around in those useless surgical masks, I was diligent. A ski gater is a pretty well layered item.

I also took exceptional pains not to get close to any of my older relatives or immunocompromised acquaintances. The way I saw it, Covid allowed me to punt on almost any social commitment and convert in-person things to remote, And I Did.

I kind of miss it now. The "Covid Tribe" of close friends who all agreed to be diligent and trusted each other led to lots of engagements where small talk was unnecessary. You could have more in depth conversations and often it was outside, dressed in a pullover, sipping whisky in a plastic cup, or in shorts, with a gin and tonic. Now I'm back to small talk land. Crowded soirees peppered more with acquaintances than close friends. What's called "normal."

Shakes head, gives up.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Shakes head, gives up.

This is a sincere question:

When everyone around you is living like Covid is in the rear view mirror, which they are (hence reinstatements of mandates), what is one to do? Wearing a mask in a restaurant full of people without them is pointless. And what of meetings? I’ve been careful to ask about mask protocol when meeting older people (70s/80s) only to have them advise they’d already had it and been vaxxed and didn’t care.

Should one turn down social engagements? Turn down business entertainment?

Whose level of vigilance is controlling? Whose should be the standard? Surely, one cannot say we should act like it’s March 2020 all over again. And yet, it’s hard not to translate a lot of tsk tsk’ing as demanding exactly that.

I’ve danced with this disease twice and been vaxxed and boosted. Perhaps my choice of mask was lacking. But now, when in the grocery store where I’d be one of maybe 3-5% of people still masking, am I still duty bound to mask up?

It is not a heresy to say that when in Rome, one might as well do as in Rome. And to say that Covid cannot continue to define us, control us, to the extent it has. These are reasonable and eminently defensible propositions.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

This is a sincere question:

When everyone around you is living like Covid is in the rear view mirror, which they are (hence reinstatements of mandates), what is one to do? Wearing a mask in a restaurant full of people without them is pointless. And what of meetings? I’ve been careful to ask about mask protocol when meeting older people (70s/80s) only to have them advise they’d already had it and been vaxxed and didn’t care.

Should one turn down social engagements? Turn down business entertainment?

Whose level of vigilance is controlling? Whose should be the standard? Surely, one cannot say we should act like it’s March 2020 all over again. And yet, it’s hard not to translate a lot of tsk tsk’ing as demanding exactly that.

I’ve danced with this disease twice and been vaxxed and boosted. Perhaps my choice of mask was lacking. But now, when in the grocery store where I’d be one of maybe 3-5% of people still masking, am I still duty bound to mask up?

It is not a heresy to say that when in Rome, one might as well do as in Rome. And to say that Covid cannot continue to define us, control us, to the extent it has. These are reasonable and eminently defensible propositions.

There are a lot of people around me these days not wearing masks. I'm not going to try to change their behavior, but I'm also going to keep wearing a mask. That doesn't mean Covid is controlling me. It means I don't want to get sick, and I don't want to make my wife sick.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

There are a lot of people around me these days not wearing masks. I'm not going to try to change their behavior, but I'm also going to keep wearing a mask. That doesn't mean Covid is controlling me. It means I don't want to get sick, and I don't want to make my wife sick.

Totally reasonable. I agree with this thinking entirely.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

This is a sincere question:

When everyone around you is living like Covid is in the rear view mirror, which they are (hence reinstatements of mandates), what is one to do? Wearing a mask in a restaurant full of people without them is pointless. And what of meetings? I’ve been careful to ask about mask protocol when meeting older people (70s/80s) only to have them advise they’d already had it and been vaxxed and didn’t care.

Should one turn down social engagements? Turn down business entertainment?

Whose level of vigilance is controlling? Whose should be the standard? Surely, one cannot say we should act like it’s March 2020 all over again. And yet, it’s hard not to translate a lot of tsk tsk’ing as demanding exactly that.

I’ve danced with this disease twice and been vaxxed and boosted. Perhaps my choice of mask was lacking. But now, when in the grocery store where I’d be one of maybe 3-5% of people still masking, am I still duty bound to mask up?

It is not a heresy to say that when in Rome, one might as well do as in Rome. And to say that Covid cannot continue to define us, control us, to the extent it has. These are reasonable and eminently defensible propositions.

Look, I'm immunocompromised, so yes, I turn down invitations and appointments all the time. When I set up a business lunch, I have them in the office and have food delivered, and two to four people will sit at a conference table meant for 24, with a good distance between us. I don't insist that you turn down appointments and such, but please try to keep your distance from people who are taking extra care because they may well have very good reasons.

I mask up. Who gives a shit what the crowd is doing, it helps and is no big deal. I also avoid people who don't mask and places where they don't mask, which makes moving around difficult not because there are people who don't give a shit (I can manage them) but because there are a lot of people who are really into being complete assholes to anyone wearing a mask and getting in their face.

A hint: if anyone wants to go to a musical event safely, try opera. The sizable gay community participation means everyone who is into opera, straight or gay, has awful aids stories about people they loved. Masking is at 95% and testing is higher. If you want to go to a restaurant, find a neighborhood full of doctors to go in. Again, much safer than others, which are starting to add back tables they took out for social distancing purposes. My oncologist has shared a bunch of tips with me, he's really limited what he does since the masks came off, given that he spends his whole life with immunocompromised people. Just a complete hero.

But you're just being an idiot if you think a surgical mask is less useful than a gater. Where do you get such information? I mean, I get that you're the kind of person who likes to follow the crowd, but it's the ignorance of stuff like that that makes me shake my head and give up. And when you say COVID is "controlling" someone what is that about? Ever watched someone walk on ice? Should they just run, because otherwise the ice is controlling them? How dare people use snow tires! They are giving in to the ice.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Look, I'm immunocompromised, so yes, I turn down invitations and appointments all the time. When I set up a business lunch, I have them in the office and have food delivered, and two to four people will sit at a conference table meant for 24, with a good distance between us. I don't insist that you turn down appointments and such, but please try to keep your distance from people who are taking extra care because they may well have very good reasons.

Totally agree. If I know someone is ill or they desire me to wear a mask, I'm happy to do so. If everyone in a building is wearing masks, I'll do what they're doing as it seems polite as well.

I mask up. Who gives a shit what the crowd is doing, it helps and is no big deal. I also avoid people who don't mask and places where they don't mask, which makes moving around difficult not because there are people who don't give a shit (I can manage them) but because there are a lot of people who are really into being complete assholes to anyone wearing a mask and getting in their face.

It's not following a crowd because I blindly follow. If anything is known of my personality at this point it's that I'm allergic to herd behavior. But in this case, if the herd isn't masking, there isn't a whole lotta point in my bucking the trend. I am not worried about getting my spouse sick or getting sick myself. Ty's cost/benefit doesn't apply.

A hint: if anyone wants to go to a musical event safely, try opera. The sizable gay community participation means everyone who is into opera, straight or gay, has awful aids stories about people they loved. Masking is at 95% and testing is higher. If you want to go to a restaurant, find a neighborhood full of doctors to go in. Again, much safer than others, which are starting to add back tables they took out for social distancing purposes. My oncologist has shared a bunch of tips with me, he's really limited what he does since the masks came off, given that he spends his whole life with immunocompromised people. Just a complete hero.

This is simply not realistic for me or most people. Everywhere I go, most people are walking around sans masks. And I can't be so selective in where I go. I have a meeting with 10 people next week. The conference room will be crowded. But I can't punt on this one. And there's no point in masking where I know I'll be alone. I have to keep the lights on, and this is not a meeting I can skip.

But you're just being an idiot if you think a surgical mask is less useful than a gater.

I don't think either is terribly useful.

And when you say COVID is "controlling" someone what is that about? Ever watched someone walk on ice? Should they just run, because otherwise the ice is controlling them? How dare people use snow tires! They are giving in to the ice.

I knew I should not have used that term. As it becomes endemic, and it is (unless China births some mutant variant at this late stage because of their moronic Zero Covid policy), it is or soon will be time to start looking at Covid like we look at other viruses. The reaction needs to meet the risk. If the variants continue to weaken, vigilance can be appropriately relaxed.

Yes, they may be more widely transmitted and this creates what looks like a significant uptick in deaths. But it's actually just the virus doing what it inevitably will do - cycle through almost every living thing. And as it does, as it has, it will turn into what viruses that survive must - a thing that does not kill its host. We'll live with it. And I think the first step toward living with it is recognizing the steep drop in risk accruing from Covid.

It's not heresy to shrug at Omicron. I had it and it was nothing. I can say that, factually. It's not heresy to claim that we're coming through the other side of this thing, that the finish line is very close.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

And I can't be so selective in where I go. I have a meeting with 10 people next week. The conference room will be crowded. But I can't punt on this one. And there's no point in masking where I know I'll be alone. I have to keep the lights on, and this is not a meeting I can skip.

Watch me. I’m already rubbing maskless coworkers the wrong way by telling them to take the next elevator.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Watch me. I’m already rubbing maskless coworkers the wrong way by telling them to take the next elevator.

One hopes as now somewhat aged lawyers we generally have the ability to set our own way. We certainly do compared to 95% of the country.

When the announcement came around from the firm that our mask policy was rescinded, it included a statement that everyone should still be sensitive to people who continued to mask and that many would be doing so because they were immunocompromised. I sent around a "reply to all" email immediately noting that I would appreciate everyone coming into my office to be masked and noting my position, and I got a lot of thank yous from staff in the office who felt pressure to demask.

If we can't stand up and do our own thing at this point in our careers, what the fuck have we been doing?

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

One hopes as now somewhat aged lawyers we generally have the ability to set our own way. We certainly do compared to 95% of the country.

When the announcement came around from the firm that our mask policy was rescinded, it included a statement that everyone should still be sensitive to people who continued to mask and that many would be doing so because they were immunocompromised. I sent around a "reply to all" email immediately noting that I would appreciate everyone coming into my office to be masked and noting my position, and I got a lot of thank yous from staff in the office who felt pressure to demask.

If we can't stand up and do our own thing at this point in our careers, what the fuck have we been doing?

We are working (in person, often) with people with terminal cancer that we are saying was caused because companies didn't do enough to warn these people to take precautions like wear masks. Yet no one will wear a mask. Am I missing something?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Watch me. I’m already rubbing maskless coworkers the wrong way by telling them to take the next elevator.

I'm totally just done with everybody. People are so fucking bitchy and self-righteous these days about almost everything I Can't Even.

Fucking cranks on the Right talking about CRT and "Let's Go Brandon" (thank god we decided not to hold Easter, so I don't have to listen to my right wing relatives talk that nonsense). Science illiterate utopians on on the Left asserting China's was the correct Covid response.

Turn on the news and its dimwits in FL trying to stuff homosexuality back in the closet. Or some buffoon defending allowing a person who is still very much a male physically being allowed to compete against female swimmers.

The Neocons are back, hectoring for a confrontation with Russia. Yay! Love those assholes.

Who's woke? Who isn't? What's woke? What's not?

Elon Musk is taking over Twitter. He's dangerous. Why, is he going to preclude free speech? No. He's inclined to allow too much of it! We need more preclusion of it, to stop misinformation. What's misinformation? Well, just ask five people. And you'll get five different answers. But each one of those five assholes will be cocksure he's got the only true definition.

The grumpy old men with no personal lives want everyone back in the office, to stroke their egos. Workers are all complaining they're fried. Some correctly, others because they're precious shits.

People are sticking these annoying "Joe Biden Did This" stickers on the gas pumps. Guess they don't like inflation. But they sure liked all the free money they received from Uncle Sam during Covid, which in significant part caused the inflation.

And then we come to masks. Where everybody knows everything and no one knows really knows much. And a whole army of folks want to demonstrate their position by wearing or not wearing them. And every semblance of common fucking sense goes out the window.

I just left a crowded grocery store and coffee chain. Masks? Next to none.

Those are facts.

Here are some more facts:

If I was to wear a mask in there, I'm stopping what percentage of possible transmission? Well, the figure is so small it's not even worth noting. Irrefutably, there is no sane cost/benefit to me wearing a mask into those places, as nobody else is doing so. The only logical reason is Ty's - that he wants to avoid getting sick and sickening his spouse. My spouse isn't masking in any of those venues anymore than I am. So that cost/benefit does not apply to me. My immunocompromised friends and acquaintances are not even masking in crowded venues.

This view that one with minimal if any chance of harming anyone else by not wearing a mask - in a society where almost no one is masking anymore - must act like its March 2020, is simply not well reasoned.

If everyone starts wearing them again, I'm happy to do so. I like hiding in plain sight. But if there's no possible benefit to doing so, and there isn't when everyone else has eschewed them, I needn't wear one.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The grumpy old men

Flower, that's your cue for an irony ruling.

If I was to wear a mask in there, I'm stopping what percentage of possible transmission? Well, the figure is so small it's not even worth noting. Irrefutably, there is no sane cost/benefit to me wearing a mask into those places, as nobody else is doing so.

The cost is practically zero, though.

The only logical reason is Ty's - that he wants to avoid getting sick and sickening his spouse.

Seems like a pretty big benefit to me, but ymmv.

If everyone starts wearing them again, I'm happy to do so. I like hiding in plain sight. But if there's no possible benefit to doing so, and there isn't when everyone else has eschewed them, I needn't wear one.

A few weeks ago, I noticed almost no one wearing them at the grocery store. The other day it was almost everyone. I suspect it was just different staff making different choices. But the only downside for me is that I tend to get a little warm so why not keep wearing it for my benefit and for the benefit of anyone else who is still doing so.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Here are some more facts:

If I was to wear a mask in there, I'm stopping what percentage of possible transmission? Well, the figure is so small it's not even worth noting. Irrefutably, there is no sane cost/benefit to me wearing a mask into those places, as nobody else is doing so. The only logical reason is Ty's - that he wants to avoid getting sick and sickening his spouse. My spouse isn't masking in any of those venues anymore than I am. So that cost/benefit does not apply to me. My immunocompromised friends and acquaintances are not even masking in crowded venues.

Wrong, but what evs You do you.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Elon Musk is taking over Twitter. He's dangerous. Why, is he going to preclude free speech? No. He's inclined to allow too much of it! We need more preclusion of it, to stop misinformation. What's misinformation? Well, just ask five people. And you'll get five different answers. But each one of those five assholes will be cocksure he's got the only true definition.

Here's a really good thread about what Musk would face if he bought Twitter.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Totally agree. If I know someone is ill or they desire me to wear a mask, I'm happy to do so. If everyone in a building is wearing masks, I'll do what they're doing as it seems polite as well.



It's not following a crowd because I blindly follow. If anything is known of my personality at this point it's that I'm allergic to herd behavior. But in this case, if the herd isn't masking, there isn't a whole lotta point in my bucking the trend. I am not worried about getting my spouse sick or getting sick myself. Ty's cost/benefit doesn't apply.



This is simply not realistic for me or most people. Everywhere I go, most people are walking around sans masks. And I can't be so selective in where I go. I have a meeting with 10 people next week. The conference room will be crowded. But I can't punt on this one. And there's no point in masking where I know I'll be alone. I have to keep the lights on, and this is not a meeting I can skip.



I don't think either is terribly useful.



I knew I should not have used that term. As it becomes endemic, and it is (unless China births some mutant variant at this late stage because of their moronic Zero Covid policy), it is or soon will be time to start looking at Covid like we look at other viruses. The reaction needs to meet the risk. If the variants continue to weaken, vigilance can be appropriately relaxed.

Yes, they may be more widely transmitted and this creates what looks like a significant uptick in deaths. But it's actually just the virus doing what it inevitably will do - cycle through almost every living thing. And as it does, as it has, it will turn into what viruses that survive must - a thing that does not kill its host. We'll live with it. And I think the first step toward living with it is recognizing the steep drop in risk accruing from Covid.

It's not heresy to shrug at Omicron. I had it and it was nothing. I can say that, factually. It's not heresy to claim that we're coming through the other side of this thing, that the finish line is very close.

I suggested you were not terribly bright and were following the crowd, not that you were a heretic.

As I said before, SMH.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I suggested you were not terribly bright and were following the crowd, not that you were a heretic.

Yeah, except that's an impossibility under the given facts. Qualifies also as a logical fallacy.

If the crowd isn't masking, as a matter of science, and epidemiology more specifically, any single person's masking becomes immaterial. The use of a mask nevertheless would have limited if any benefit. If one is irritated by masks and that irritation outweighs the scant potential (hypothetical) benefit to others, then wearing a mask would be unwise and irrational.

The mask thing in this country has demonstrated our national lack of facility with logic and rational thought. Or, alternatively, the left's and right's dislike of both.

Through most of the pandemic, not wearing a mask was illogical and irrational. Even if you doubted their efficacy, why take a chance? The cost/benefit could only run to one conclusion - wear a mask.

Now, unless you've a unique health issue, or are in regular contact with people with a unique health issue, if you're in an area where no one is wearing them anymore (which is most areas), the cost/benefit is turned 180 degrees. In that instance, where the chance of you harming others is negligible if it exists at all, do you nevertheless mask? One could make the argument that extreme vigilance is always warranted. That even if the risk is akin to being struck by lightning, one must gird against the possibility of that black swan. But that is not rational, or logical. That is the tail wagging the elephant.

Logic does not support the tail wagging the elephant. Logic supports doing that which is reasonable. At this point, where the virus is endemic and weakening with each uptick, it is eminently reasonable to, if healthy, ditch the mask.

The counter to this is a more emotional than logical argument. Hence, "selfishness" is usually invoked. This also fails, of course, as it's not selfish for society to tailor its vigilance to the level of risk. OTOH, the argument that people should address today's risk as though it were March 2020's could be seen as quite selfish. Society acts in a manner that's reasonable for the greatest number of its members. Asking it to observe extreme vigilance in the face of increasingly minuscule aggregate risk with no epidemiological basis for doing so seems the definition of unreasonable.

Where the rubber meets the road is some folks want a society where the protection of all at any cost is the paramount concern. This is a plank of progressive thinking. But its also something that will never occur on planet earth. Instead, societies apply a balancing of interests and that often appears insensitive. The people who desire the society described in the first sentence of this paragraph are, however, unable to express their goal in exactly that way. Because they know in response, pragmatists and realists will cite the fact that it is impossible and impractical, utopian. The tail does not wag the elephant, and it never will.

So instead, the people who desire a protection-of-all-at-any-cost society try to argue the merits. They claim the science supports them. Just as the people on the right did when they argued against wearing masks when the pandemic was raging.

People want the society they want, and the science they want. And neither seems to comply.