Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

You are correct. Whether it was my rabid COVID denialism, my insistence that Roe v. Wade would never be overturned, or my continuing and ever-more-absurd assertions that Trump never represented a threat to democracy, my inability to understand what was happening in American politics was matched only by my arrogant belief that I, and I alone, was able to assess these issues free of bias and rampant emotionalism. I did not simply agree to disagree with you all on these issues — I derisively mocked you for taking a contrary position. If you said Roe v. Wade would be overturned, you were not just wrong. You were a hysterical (like a woman!), hair-on-fire liberal. If you said COVID was a serious threat that needed to be aggressively addressed early on, you were a scared sheep, engaging in performative acts of virtue signaling. I called you naive fools and emotional little children, even when, again and again, my sneering certitudes turned out to be … how shall I put this … inaccurate prognostications. But I now understand that corrupt institutions not only need active evil-doers in order to succeed — almost more so, they need the deniers and the apologists. The ones who tut tut and roll their eyes at those sounding the alarms, contemptuously superior in their ridiculous but unwavering belief that they are the only ones who can see through smoke and pronounce The Truth to the masses who have let themselves become consumed by childish emotion. I now realize that I was wrong, time and time again, and that I, in fact, was the useful idiot. I am sorry.

I was not a Covid denier. I wore masks and got vaxxed asap. Arguments over Covid were probably about degree of vigilance. I thought some people went nuts. And some are still nuts. I thought lockdowns were nuts after a certain point, and unrealistic, and I was right. If you doubt that, consider China over the past few months versus the United States.

Trump did not and still doesn't represent a serious threat to democracy. If Jan 6 hearings have exposed anything its that despite his insane level of effort to overthrow the election, in the end, He Never Had a Chance. The system held. The best he could was start a riot among dead enders that, although disgusting and unforgivable, never had a chance. And now he's sinking his own party's chances like a stone. DeSantis would walk away with it in 2024 the way things are going right now. But not if Trump kneecaps him.

Where I was wrong - dead wrong - is on Roe. I simply cannot fathom that the GOP has decided to trip this wire. Yes, I sneered about this being impossible. Because, well, to sane people it was fucking impossible. The party hierarchy of the GOP that I'd known observed a rule with these fucking evangelicals. Take their vote, but don't actually give them what they want.

I believed it would hold. I believed in "elites" that apparently no longer exist within the GOP. I thought that rational actors would prevail. And like so many economists who get markets and macro issues wrong every day, I missed the irrational actors. I missed the Federalist Society and the apparent degenerate vein of Catholic extremists within it.

I was a useful idiot to the extent that a band of nuts within the fringe right wing did something counterproductive, suicidal. My predictions don't count for shit, so I won't predict, but how the fuck do you see the flipping of Roe helping the GOP going forward? Look at the demographics. The GOP already has all the votes its going to have. Whatever inroads it is making with Latinos and Asians is now netted against an equivalent loss in suburban women.

It's also caused a huge loss of votes among moderate Rs. This isn't the only chat board or thread any of us use. How many Rs have now said this is a step too far and they are done with the party? The golf course Rs I've spoken to are all aghast. And yeah, they're fucking clueless. But the sentiment is, "How in the fuck did the trailer park class take over the party?"

I voted D most of the time anyway, but for the same reasons I could not vote and did not for Trump, I'm now compelled to vote straight D across the board, even if I detest the candidate.

But yeah, you're right. I didn't realize I was dealing with suicide bombers and perjuring SCOTUS justices. I thought sanity prevailed on issues of such grave cultural importance... that as it had despite Trump's efforts to flip the election, the systems would hold, the precedent would hold. So when you call me a useful idiot in this instance, I happily own it. It means it I simply wasn't acquainted enough with crazy to see this is as possible. And that's an odd thing coming from me.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Trump did not and still doesn't represent a serious threat to democracy. If Jan 6 hearings have exposed anything its that despite his insane level of effort to overthrow the election, in the end, He Never Had a Chance. The system held. The best he could was start a riot among dead enders that, although disgusting and unforgivable, never had a chance. And now he's sinking his own party's chances like a stone. DeSantis would walk away with it in 2024 the way things are going right now. But not if Trump kneecaps him.

Not to distract from Roe and Dobbs, but you are so totally wrong about this. Democracy only works because the side that loses elections gives up power. Trump has normalized the idea that this doesn't apply to Republicans.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Not to distract from Roe and Dobbs, but you are so totally wrong about this. Democracy only works because the side that loses elections gives up power. Trump has normalized the idea that this doesn't apply to Republicans.

I don’t think so. Everyone knows the Big Lie is a Goebbels/Bernays confection that Trump is spouting because he is mentally ill and of infantile bent that cannot allow graceful concession.

People howled about how 2016 was somehow rigged by Russians, but it faded. It faded more quickly because Hillary didn’t fan the flames. As Trump recedes, and he is, the Big Lie will fade.

My bigger fear is what comes after November. If the red wave is as big as it might be, the dysfunction to follow will possibly undo the country. People don’t follow laws they deem illegitimate. And I don’t think people like me should have to follow any laws coming from social conservatives. If the state houses turn dark red and the right tries to enforce a socially conservative agenda, you will see the enforcement powers of govt at the state level tested.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Right wing media and Rs looking to whatabout are carping about threats to Justices. As though it’s possible to even compare that to the damage they’ve just created.

An apt reply, IMO:

I can’t agree with the threat of violence. But it’s more than arguable that he who unjustifiably strips the most essential rights of others, knowingly, forfeits his right to walk in public without looking over his shoulder.

Caveat emptor? Perhaps Newton’s Third Law in action? Analogies abound. But a lifetime of fear seems an appropriate toll for having crossed this bridge.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Right wing media and Rs looking to whatabout are carping about threats to Justices. As though it’s possible to even compare that to the damage they’ve just created.

An apt reply, IMO:

I can’t agree with the threat of violence. But it’s more than arguable that he who unjustifiably strips the most essential rights of others, knowingly, forfeits his right to walk in public without looking over his shoulder.

Caveat emptor? Perhaps Newton’s Third Law in action? Analogies abound. But a lifetime of fear seems an appropriate toll for having crossed this bridge.

The right wing are the sorest winners, I swear.

And none of those assholes should dine out peacefully until they resign from the bench in disgrace. And then only every other outing should be heckle free.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Right wing media and Rs looking to whatabout are carping about threats to Justices. As though it’s possible to even compare that to the damage they’ve just created.

An apt reply, IMO:

I can’t agree with the threat of violence. But it’s more than arguable that he who unjustifiably strips the most essential rights of others, knowingly, forfeits his right to walk in public without looking over his shoulder.

Caveat emptor? Perhaps Newton’s Third Law in action? Analogies abound. But a lifetime of fear seems an appropriate toll for having crossed this bridge.

"It would be naïve to depend on the Supreme Court to defend the rights of poor people, women, people of color, dissenters of all kinds. Those rights only come alive when citizens organize, protest, demonstrate, strike, boycott, rebel, and violate the law in order to uphold justice."

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

My bigger fear is what comes after November. If the red wave is as big as it might be, the dysfunction to follow will possibly undo the country. People don’t follow laws they deem illegitimate. And I don’t think people like me should have to follow any laws coming from social conservatives. If the state houses turn dark red and the right tries to enforce a socially conservative agenda, you will see the enforcement powers of govt at the state level tested.

I've been living with this level of crazy for about two years. We've been right-wing for 20 years, but not like this, not to this level. With the exception of Lubbock/Amarillo and Midland/Odessa, every major metropolitan area in this state is purple leaning blue. And we are totally hamstrung by the insanity coming out of Austin. And it's going to get worse. We saw the testing in the 2000 election, where city/county governments were trying to get creative to get voting easier during a pandemic. Austin went batshit, and they're specifically writing laws to dilute the power of the cities/counties. That's why the insane bounty law was written, because they knew there was no way in hell our DAs were going to prosecute on the abortion bans.

As for the Big Lie. They either believe it or it's so sacrosanct to their ethos at this point that they can't refute it. Only 13 Republicans were willing to say it was bullshit of the 140plus running in primaries for US Rep. And they heckled the heck out of my be-eypatched representative at the state convention last week because he's one of them. Moderate Rs are not welcome in that party anymore. I'd feel bad for them except they made this bargain, and most of them want the bullshit that happened with SCOTUS this session.

Our only hope is that the overreach is too much. But with gerrymandering and disenfranchising, who knows if the groundswell will be enough to overcome these assholes.

My kid is 10th generation Texan. I love the state. But we will have to leave if it gets too much worse.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

I've been living with this level of crazy for about two years. We've been right-wing for 20 years, but not like this, not to this level. With the exception of Lubbock/Amarillo and Midland/Odessa, every major metropolitan area in this state is purple leaning blue. And we are totally hamstrung by the insanity coming out of Austin. And it's going to get worse. We saw the testing in the 2000 election, where city/county governments were trying to get creative to get voting easier during a pandemic. Austin went batshit, and they're specifically writing laws to dilute the power of the cities/counties. That's why the insane bounty law was written, because they knew there was no way in hell our DAs were going to prosecute on the abortion bans.

As for the Big Lie. They either believe it or it's so sacrosanct to their ethos at this point that they can't refute it. Only 13 Republicans were willing to say it was bullshit of the 140plus running in primaries for US Rep. And they heckled the heck out of my be-eypatched representative at the state convention last week because he's one of them. Moderate Rs are not welcome in that party anymore. I'd feel bad for them except they made this bargain, and most of them want the bullshit that happened with SCOTUS this session.

Our only hope is that the overreach is too much. But with gerrymandering and disenfranchising, who knows if the groundswell will be enough to overcome these assholes.

My kid is 10th generation Texan. I love the state. But we will have to leave if it gets too much worse.

Michigan was bluish purple but our districts were R gerrymandered so state house/senate was R and laws were wacky. We had a state referendum to handoff redistricting to an independent commission. I believe we are going to adjustin Nov. WTTW

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Not to distract from Roe and Dobbs, but you are so totally wrong about this. Democracy only works because the side that loses elections gives up power. Trump has normalized the idea that this doesn't apply to Republicans.

The republicans already have people in place to just appoint their legislators no matter how many people vote for whom based on fraud, right?

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Not to distract from Roe and Dobbs, but you are so totally wrong about this. Democracy only works because the side that loses elections gives up power. Trump has normalized the idea that this doesn't apply to Republicans.

The key question is who does the military respond to. It was clear on or around January 6, that the armed forces generally said "Fuck that guy."

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

The key question is who does the military respond to. It was clear on or around January 6, that the armed forces generally said "Fuck that guy."

Exactly. And even Mitch and the Supremes stood down. Those people have actual power and anointing a dictator would mean they no longer have it.

Ask the Chief Justice of the German Supreme Court a month after Hitler took over. Pretty sure he had less power the day after?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

The key question is who does the military respond to. It was clear on or around January 6, that the armed forces generally said "Fuck that guy."

So, in your scenario, if Trump had found a sympathizer in the Georgia Secretary of State, and maybe a couple of others in the Justice Department, the military would have stepped in and stopped the steal? Really? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t know and you don’t either. But the problem with the delusionally arrogant is that, no matter how many times they are proven wrong, they are still 100% right about everything else all the time, and everyone who disagrees is a hair-on-fire hysterical alarmist in an echo chamber. And by they time the delusionally arrogant are proven wrong yet again, and offer their weak, self-serving mea culpas, it is too late. COVID is killing 2,000 people a day, not 2,000 total. Roe v. Wade is dead and the right to gay marriage is not far behind.

I once told Sebastian about my uncle who was so overtly racist that he disowned his daughter because she married a successful black man. I noted that my uncle faced essentially no personal or professional consequences in his little Greenwich, CT world for his overt racism. Sebastian nonetheless insisted that this was not the case, that this type of overt racism was Simply. Not. Tolerated. I shared this story with my cousin and her husband, and her husband said, “Do you know how many white people have explained to me over the years how the overt racism I personally experienced did not actually exist?”

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

So, in your scenario, if Trump had found a sympathizer in the Georgia Secretary of State, and maybe a couple of others in the Justice Department, the military would have stepped in and stopped the steal?

Not necessarily but they wouldn't have lifted a finger to help him.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Not necessarily but they wouldn't have lifted a finger to help him.

That seems to be the case, but less clear is that he would have even needed their help if he had found enough loyalists in the right places.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

That seems to be the case, but less clear is that he would have even needed their help if he had found enough loyalists in the right places.

Joint Chiefs probably thinking they should have nuked the White House on 1/6.