Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

That seems to be the case, but less clear is that he would have even needed their help if he had found enough loyalists in the right places.

Or if there had been more uncertainty about the bogus claims of voter fraud. Which is what Trump supporters are creating, across the country. They do not trust the government, institutionally, and their lack of trust is self-fulfilling and self-replicating.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Or if there had been more uncertainty about the bogus claims of voter fraud. Which is what Trump supporters are creating, across the country. They do not trust the government, institutionally, and their lack of trust is self-fulfilling and self-replicating.

Polls from earlier this year showed a staggering percentage of people still believe Trump won. An Axios poll had that number at over 40%. Forty fucking percent. And think about how many Republicans elected officials openly promote this lie. Think about how many more quietly do. But democracy is doing just fine.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Polls from earlier this year showed a staggering percentage of people still believe Trump won. An Axios poll had that number at over 40%. Forty fucking percent. And think about how many Republicans elected officials openly promote this lie. Think about how many more quietly do. But democracy is doing just fine.

I don't disagree with your point, but would add that I'm sure many people understand that Trump lost but say -- in public, to pollsters, whatever -- that he won, because the expressive act of saying that is flying their colors, whatever they actually believe.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I don't disagree with your point, but would add that I'm sure many people understand that Trump lost but say -- in public, to pollsters, whatever -- that he won, because the expressive act of saying that is flying their colors, whatever they actually believe.

I agree, but those people (whatever they happen to believe in whatever rational parts of their minds that still exist) are the ones whose lack of trust in government is self-fulfilling and self-replicating, and their numbers are scary large.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

I agree, but those people (whatever they happen to believe in whatever rational parts of their minds that still exist) are the ones whose lack of trust in government is self-fulfilling and self-replicating, and their numbers are scary large.

A lot of people seem to think that if you just give them the facts, they will come around. But it's some combination of motivated reasoning and willingness to lie and be lied to that is impervious to that sort of Enlightenment thinking. As Google and Facebook have gotten rich showing, lots of people want to hear what they want to hear.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

A lot of people seem to think that if you just give them the facts, they will come around. But it's some combination of motivated reasoning and willingness to lie and be lied to that is impervious to that sort of Enlightenment thinking. As Google and Facebook have gotten rich showing, lots of people want to hear what they want to hear.

The only way to get them off of this is to redirect their fear/hate/mistrust. Facts are totally useless to them.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

The only way to get them off of this is to redirect their fear/hate/mistrust. Facts are totally useless to them.

You can't do that because the forum is a binary competition. There's the institutions, and the revolutionaries. Even if a revolutionary's leader is an obvious lying ass, he can't re-embrace the institutions.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I've just been reading Gorsuch's dissent in the Indian law decision, Castro-Huerta, and we are in a world of hurt. There are several Supreme Court justices now who just do not give a shit what the law has been, and are happy to use their power to make it what they want it to be. Conservatives like to pretend that the Warren Court was some sort of liberal conspiracy, but Warren was a Republican, and the Warren Court's rulings generally followed a consensus across much of the country about how things should work. No one packed the Court to produce its rulings. The Roberts Court is going to be far more activist than the Warren Court was, far less legitimate, and much less popular. Which is ironic, because that's not how Roberts would like to do it, but on most cases he won't be the deciding vote.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I read this and thought it was Sebby:

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Or if there had been more uncertainty about the bogus claims of voter fraud. Which is what Trump supporters are creating, across the country. They do not trust the government, institutionally, and their lack of trust is self-fulfilling and self-replicating.

With the endless barrage of stories emerging online - from credible sources - showing our govt's capture by special interests and corporations, why should anyone entirely trust the govt?

2008 Bailout
Iraq War based on lies
Revolving door
K Street
Endless lies about the actual state of things ("Everything's fine!" or "We're fucked... but only because of what the other party did!")
Significant corrupt media doing the right's and left's bidding
SCOTUS

The case for trust in anything pretending to be running this country right now is?

ETA: I just watched Vice the other night, for the fifth time. It's a dark comedic satire. It's also about 10X more truthful about what happened during Cheney's reign than the NYTimes, WaPo, CNN, Fox, or any other news network carrying the administration's water on the Iraq War at the time. Jon Stewart told more truth in his show than the nightly news of every network during his tenure. We're a country run by clowns and fabulists. To understand this fucking place you don't need Harold Beale. You need a fucking stand-up.