Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...class-support/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...working-class/

https://www.vanderbilt.edu/unity/202...ept-them-away/

https://clerk.macombgov.org/sites/de...ber_4_2008.pdf

https://clerk.macombgov.org/sites/de...ber16/105.html

This is 2008 and 2016 election results in Macomb County. The % for Trump flipped 10% compared to McCain. The 2008 numbers held in 2012 and the 2016 in 2020.

It's where I grew up. I remember after college a friend got a chance to be campaign manager for an R congress candidate. I joined in because of lots of $$$ to spend. I remember working a poll on election day. A huge % of the voters came in holding a piece of paper where the UAW told them they need to vote D. Our whole campaign was pointless. But anyhoo, it is VERY working class.

And the problem with those articles (beyond exit polls- who would say what they actually make?) is the comparison to "average." The really really poor around here vote D in amazing %s. And those people take down the "average."

But those aren't who Sebby is talking about. Sebby is talking about people who have a bit to lose, and are seeing it erode away. I am sure some wealthy people vote Trump, but the vast majority of who I see around here sporting Trump 2024 flags or Don't tread on Me flags, or, just recently flying Fuck Biden flags (in Northern Mi a month ago to pick up my new puppy I saw all 3 flags flying in the same pick up truck bed!) are not wealthy people.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

https://clerk.macombgov.org/sites/de...ber_4_2008.pdf

https://clerk.macombgov.org/sites/de...ber16/105.html

This is 2008 and 2016 election results in Macomb County. The % for Trump flipped 10% compared to McCain. The 2008 numbers held in 2012 and the 2016 in 2020.

It's where I grew up. I remember after college a friend got a chance to be campaign manager for an R congress candidate. I joined in because of lots of $$$ to spend. I remember working a poll on election day. A huge % of the voters came in holding a piece of paper where the UAW told them they need to vote D. Our whole campaign was pointless. But anyhoo, it is VERY working class.

And the problem with those articles (beyond exit polls- who would say what they actually make?) is the comparison to "average." The really really poor around here vote D in amazing %s. And those people take down the "average."

But those aren't who Sebby is talking about. Sebby is talking about people who have a bit to lose, and are seeing it erode away. I am sure some wealthy people vote Trump, but the vast majority of who I see around here sporting Trump 2024 flags or Don't tread on Me flags, or, just recently flying Fuck Biden flags (in Northern Mi a month ago to be up my new puppy I saw all 3 flags flying in the same pick up truck bed!) are not wealthy people.

When they use household income, also consider a lot of younger voters in and around cities vote D. Their household is 1. $72k for 1 is different than $72k for a family of 4.

https://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/vie...t=ttcsp_papers

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

https://clerk.macombgov.org/sites/de...ber_4_2008.pdf

https://clerk.macombgov.org/sites/de...ber16/105.html

This is 2008 and 2016 election results in Macomb County. The % for Trump flipped 10% compared to McCain. The 2008 numbers held in 2012 and the 2016 in 2020.

It's where I grew up. I remember after college a friend got a chance to be campaign manager for an R congress candidate. I joined in because of lots of $$$ to spend. I remember working a poll on election day. A huge % of the voters came in holding a piece of paper where the UAW told them they need to vote D. Our whole campaign was pointless. But anyhoo, it is VERY working class.

And the problem with those articles (beyond exit polls- who would say what they actually make?) is the comparison to "average." The really really poor around here vote D in amazing %s. And those people take down the "average."

But those aren't who Sebby is talking about. Sebby is talking about people who have a bit to lose, and are seeing it erode away. I am sure some wealthy people vote Trump, but the vast majority of who I see around here sporting Trump 2024 flags or Don't tread on Me flags, or, just recently flying Fuck Biden flags (in Northern Mi a month ago to pick up my new puppy I saw all 3 flags flying in the same pick up truck bed!) are not wealthy people.

You asked a question, I was curious, did a quick Google search and sent you some results. Your anecdotes don’t really persuade me the articles are not accurate, but I also don’t really care. Just trying to be helpful. Because I am a good Lawtalkers citizen.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

You asked a question, I was curious, did a quick Google search and sent you some results. Your anecdotes don’t really persuade me the articles are not accurate, but I also don’t really care. Just trying to be helpful. Because I am a good Lawtalkers citizen.

Same same.

Although election results are anecdotes in Minnesota? That was Trump’s claim about election results IIRC?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Same same.

Although election results are anecdotes in Minnesota? That was Trump’s claim about election results IIRC?

I didn’t read your links. Or, to be honest, much of your post. I’m not sure if I mentioned this earlier, but I don’t care.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

You asked a question, I was curious, did a quick Google search and sent you some results. Your anecdotes don’t really persuade me the articles are not accurate, but I also don’t really care. Just trying to be helpful. Because I am a good Lawtalkers citizen.

A very simple way to think about it is that his supporters are white. The set of white people in this country, overall, is more affluent than the set of people.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

A very simple way to think about it is that his supporters are white. The set of white people in this country, overall, is more affluent than the set of people.

Exactly, which is why looking at "average" misses Sebby's point.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

A very simple way to think about it is that his supporters are white. The set of white people in this country, overall, is more affluent than the set of people.

But it's not just that. The more affluent a white person is, the more likely they are to vote for Trump. It's really not in question.

What confuses things somewhat is that more affluent parts of the country (coastal and urban areas) and of states (cities) are more likely not to.

Hank can post results from Macomb County, and they tell you something, but they don't tell you who in Macomb County voted for Trump and who didn't. Neither do the jackasses who drive around with flags on their trucks. I saw one of those yesterday in Santa Cruz County, but so what.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

But it's not just that. The more affluent a white person is, the more likely they are to vote for Trump. It's really not in question.

What confuses things somewhat is that more affluent parts of the country (coastal and urban areas) and of states (cities) are more likely not to.

Hank can post results from Macomb County, and they tell you something, but they don't tell you who in Macomb County voted for Trump and who didn't. Neither do the jackasses who drive around with flags on their trucks. I saw one of those yesterday in Santa Cruz County, but so what.

Trump voters tend to have higher levels of “economic anxiety” than others. You can look it up. There are numerous studies on it.

As Hank put it, they have “something to lose.”

You rephrase “something to lose” as “entitlement.” I think it’s a mixed bag. I think some Trump voters think they are entitled to something. I think an equal, or perhaps greater, number of them are anxious.

Both groups are highly susceptible to racist and xenophobic messaging, as they are searching for someone to blame for circumstances beyond their control. This need to blame others also manifests itself in distrust of institutions, which they also blame.

How much of the racism within Trumpism is attributable to native long-standing racism versus racism created by recent economic anxiety? Unknown. But when people say things like, “Trumpism is primarily based on underlying racist attitudes,” they are making a gross and unsupportable generalization. They are missing a huge component of Trumpism, which is racism caused by economic anxiety. And that is a very distinct form of racism.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Trump voters tend to have higher levels of “economic anxiety” than others. You can look it up. There are numerous studies on it.

As Hank put it, they have “something to lose.”

You rephrase “something to lose” as “entitlement.” I think it’s a mixed bag. I think some Trump voters think they are entitled to something. I think an equal, or perhaps greater, number of them are anxious.

Both groups are highly susceptible to racist and xenophobic messaging, as they are searching for someone to blame for circumstances beyond their control. This need to blame others also manifests itself in distrust of institutions, which they also blame.

How much of the racism within Trumpism is attributable to native long-standing racism versus racism created by recent economic anxiety? Unknown. But when people say things like, “Trumpism is primarily based on underlying racist attitudes,” they are making a gross and unsupportable generalization. They are missing a huge component of Trumpism, which is racism caused by economic anxiety. And that is a very distinct form of racism.

None of what you say here is inconsistent with what Adder said, and what Hank pushed back on, which is that Trump voters "are not the economically downtrodden. They are just white people."

I agree with you that they think they have something to lose. That's what I said too. I think it's as much about social status as economic status, but the two are obviously quite connected.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

But it's not just that. The more affluent a white person is, the more likely they are to vote for Trump. It's really not in question.

What confuses things somewhat is that more affluent parts of the country (coastal and urban areas) and of states (cities) are more likely not to.

Hank can post results from Macomb County, and they tell you something, but they don't tell you who in Macomb County voted for Trump and who didn't. Neither do the jackasses who drive around with flags on their trucks. I saw one of those yesterday in Santa Cruz County, but so what.

It is not true that the more affluent person is, the more likely they are to vote for Trump. The more affluent a person is, the less they give a shit who is in office. Or, the more able they are to vote against their own economic interests without consequence.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

It is not true that the more affluent person is, the more likely they are to vote for Trump.

Isn't it pretty to think so, but there is actual data on this, and you are wrong.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Isn't it pretty to think so, but there is actual data on this, and you are wrong.

So 54% of the 30% of people who make over $100 voted for Trump? So that is 16%, and let’s make it 20% to allot that rich people vote in higher % than poor. Trump got 47% of the popular vote meaning the “rich” were not the majority of his votes. Also still not clear how you say it was clear that richer white people were who got him his votes.

I don’t care about it if they did, I just don’t like to see myriad confused claims by people who do not understand statistics, and their shortcomings.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

But it's not just that. The more affluent a white person is, the more likely they are to vote for Trump. It's really not in question.

Which of the articles you linked prove this?

[Icky Thump]

Good lord we are a dumb fucking world.