Still Hating America.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
Man you can be dishonest sometimes. Why didn't you just post the sentence where I referred to him. Oh wait, then it would be obvious that I just mentioned Kleiman to praise him for his critique of blogging in general.

You said I mentioned him first. So I quote you mentioning him first, and I'm the dishonest one And my dishonesty is quoting you too much? Bite me.

Impeccable credentials? There you go again. I don't know anything else about the guy, all I know is that you pointed to a rambling blog that stating nothing.

I gave you a link to his bio. The choice to remain ignorant was yours.

You're still in a hole. Just keep digging.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Spanky
What relevent contribution to the discussion on education do you think that blog posted by Ty provided? Do you think that blog supported his assertion that there is a direct connection between unions and positive academic performance? Do you think I was wrong to ridicule it as not serious or persuasive?

I didn't read it.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
I started off this whole discussion by stating that the not only did the blog you link to in no way support the assertion you were making (that there was a connection between unions and academic performance)....

As you probably know, the post cites academic papers which say otherwise.

You just admitted that the blog in no way supported your position, which you claimed it did when you linked to it,

No, jackass, I pointed out that the blog author had updated the post in a material way since either of us read it last. The academic papers cited for the proposition I first point to still exist, and still say what they say.

you also admitted that it was not a serious contribution to the discussion on education (it was just snarky).

That's not what I said, but don't let it stop you.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Yes. I've spent a lot of time with her colleagues and I never get to see her because of how much time she spends on her research. This is her current project.


I don't know what the political agenda of figuring out how kids learn about the circulatory system of the bat in an online and realspace environment but I'm sure you could find one.

What is the sociological connection? Sounds like something for the education department.

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Nor do I know what the political agenda of an ethnography research of online community

Aren't ethnography and ethnography studies more in the field of anthropology instead of sociology? As most have probably gleaned from my posts, ethno linguistic studies are kind of my hobby, and I end up interacting a lot with anthropologists but not sociologists.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
(though there are a lot of sociologists that will argue that it's impossible to do research on online communities because they're not "real". I say bullshit, and would point to this online community).
[/QUOTE]

I'm confused. How is an online community any different than any other community that focuses on a common interest? Isn't a community any place were people congregate?

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan Is she liberal, yes. She's my friend, most of my friends are liberal. Are her colleagues liberal? Some are, some aren't. Most of the colleagues that I've met were in backyard barbeques and at her wedding, so they tended to be friends. I presume that wasn't the full spectrum of the department.

I didn't just say sociology professors tend to be liberal, hell most professors are liberal, and I said they tended to be ideologues that were more caught up in promoting social change and being involved political activities than in doing objective research. It seemed to me that in general their research is more focused on uncovering evidence of social injustice instead of just looking for the truth. Most of my friends are liberal (that obviously excludes Less and Slave), but most sociology professors I meet seem to be hyper liberal (the type of liberals that see the Democrat party as controlled by reactionary interests - the type of liberal that would shoot themselves before they would for Hillary Clinton).

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan I do know that she has at least six or seven kids every year in her Family and Marriage class that get irritated that it's not a how to class. But it's A&M. Aggies are a funny people (and boy howdy is that just a data point just begging to be analyzed).

What do they study about marriage and family?

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan I don't know too much about other institutions, but her dissertation was looking at Supreme Court cases in the 1820 through the 1920s in Missouri and Kansas and seeing what the difference with regard to race, class and gender were in a slave state versus a free state that were pretty similar otherwise.

Now that sounds like sociology.

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan Like I said, I work in academia. Her department seems no more or less fucked up than a cardiology department in a medical school. The political issues seem to be at the departmental level rather than the national or even local level. Her tenure process was a very stressful event for her.

As they say, academic politics make real politics seem like honest child's play.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You said I mentioned him first. So I quote you mentioning him first, and I'm the dishonest one And my dishonesty is quoting you too much? Bite me.

You brought him up to defend the blog against my criticisms by referring to his credentials. And then you said you did that to defend him against my criticisms of him. The only time I mentioned him was to praise him for his summary of how lame blogs are. Bite me.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I gave you a link to his bio. The choice to remain ignorant was yours.

You're still in a hole. Just keep digging.

Whether or not I know anything about him, or anything about his credentials does not change the fact that what was posted on the blog (mainly the southern teacher's diatribe) was just a mindless rant (oh I'm sorry - i guess the technical term for a mindless rant is snarky)

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
As you probably know, the post cites academic papers which say otherwise.

Wait. Didn't your harvard credentialed professor that you say is such an authority on education say that the evidence presented by such papers was ambiguous? Is he wrong, or are you wrong?

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
No, jackass, I pointed out that the blog author had updated the post in a material way since either of us read it last. The academic papers cited for the proposition I first point to still exist, and still say what they say.

Yes but your hero pointed out that they are what I said they are, not persuasive. In fact, he never said they were, he said that he didn't know yet and he would leave it to the experts. I guess he checked with the experts and they concluded they were bogus.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
That's not what I said, but don't let it stop you.

You weren't trying to point out that there was a connection between unions and strong academic performance or that there wasn't a connection between allowing administrators to fire teachers and improved performance (and you didn't post a link to that blog to support your argument). Really?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
Wait. Didn't your harvard credentialed professor that you say is such an authority on education say that the evidence presented by such papers was ambiguous? Is he wrong, or are you wrong?

Yes but your hero pointed out that they are what I said they are, not persuasive. In fact, he never said they were, he said that he didn't know yet and he would leave it to the experts. I guess he checked with the experts and they concluded they were bogus.

You weren't trying to point out that there was a connection between unions and strong academic performance or that there wasn't a connection between allowing administrators to fire teachers and improved performance (and you didn't post a link to that blog to support your argument). Really?

You now remember his credentials! A Festivus miracle!

You have this game of taking conversations about policy and other shit in the real world and diverting them into arguments about who said what to whom on the board when. I'm bored with these, because you relentlessly misrecall and misquote and misstate things, and you get so into the spirit of the thing that you do things like calling me dishonest for quoting you at length. (Which was sort of poetic, actually.)

I am interested in the question of how barriers to firing teachers and teachers unions might affect the quality of education. Apparently you're not. Too bad.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Noted without comment:

Responding to Drudge’s attack, Vice President Gore’s office told ThinkProgress:

1) Gore’s family has taken numerous steps to reduce the carbon footprint of their private residence, including signing up for 100 percent green power through Green Power Switch, installing solar panels, and using compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy saving technology.

2) Gore has had a consistent position of purchasing carbon offsets to offset the family’s carbon footprint — a concept the right-wing fails to understand. Gore’s office explains:

• What Mr. Gore has asked is that every family calculate their carbon footprint and try to reduce it as much as possible. Once they have done so, he then advocates that they purchase offsets, as the Gore’s do, to bring their footprint down to zero.

I actually think that much of the right wing understands markets in things like pollution credits, but maybe I'm just an optimist like that. Gore's people should have just refered specifically to the assclowns who were trying to rain on his Oscar parade.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Noted without comment:



I actually think that much of the right wing understands markets in things like pollution credits, but maybe I'm just an optimist like that. Gore's people should have just refered specifically to the assclowns who were trying to rain on his Oscar parade.

The guy is saying the average person should sacrifice. I didn't read the stuff on the screen while the hot chick* was singing his song, but I caught a little. He is suggesting turning down temps, turning off lights etc. Meanwhile, he is burning 8 times what the average person burns. That he can afford "carbon credits" and argues that this makes him sanctified is really quite gross. First, he is burning 8 times what I do. He should stop it. Does he really need all 80 rooms heated? Close a wing. That he buys "carbon credits" misses the point.

If he bought "carbon credits" AND closed a wing, he would actually be helping under his definition. Shouldn't a leader lead?

But of course what is most absurd is that he alleges he is trying to save the planet. That means show the masses how to change their lives to reduce the emissions. The masses are struggling to pay rent this month. they can't buy "carbon credits." The whole concept is something invented to make rich people feel less hypocritical while they preach.



*I couldn't take my eyes off her, Melissa something. Anyone know who is abnging her?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
*I couldn't take my eyes off her, Melissa something. Anyone know who is abnging her?

Mary Cheney?

[Adder]

Originally posted by Spanky
If you think Slave discounts everything that the mainstream media says, do you think that somehow absolves sociologists from applying academic standards?

I think you need to stop equating agreement with you with academic standards.

And, once again Spanky, this comes down to me wondering how you can see the world as so perfectly black and white.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Note that these are actually Bedouin Arab Israelis - and not actually "Palestinians"



link

Note that Slave conveniently quoted only the portion of the article that he was emotionally capable of absorbing. Based on his recent behavior, it seems he just went blind as the article progressed:

Hasan Gadir, a village leader, said he called an urgent meeting with all northern local council representatives to be held Wednesday, in order to decide how to address the issue.

"We are shocked and horrified," he said. "This was a dark day for all of us and we cannot take its implications seriously enough. Our tribe is known for its good temper and spirit, and we denounce those youths' actions. We will never accept this sort of behavior. For us, this is worse than a murder."

Gadir said he spent the day Tuesday with Cmdr. Dan Ronen, Northern District Police chief, and at the detention center, where he met with the suspects and their parents.

"I don't know the suspects personally but I know their parents. They are all from good families, but none of us can even think why and how it happened," he said. "We are going to examine the cases more deeply and draw conclusions, so that this will never happen again. I took it personally and it made me sad and shocked. This village has made me proud in the past, and I hope I will be proud of it again."

Gadir's reaction was echoed by other members of the town.

"I read about it on the Internet and it made me upset," said Adel Hareb, manager of the Bir al-Maksur Education Department. "That doesn't add respect to our community and this kind of behavior is against our belief, culture and tradition as Beduins."

Speaking to The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday, Hareb said the village members "will support any punishment they receive, but I hope this turns out to be a mistake. I am sure that their family members denounce their actions just as we do," Hareb added.

Bir al-Maksur is home to 7,000 residents, most of whom are Muslims.

"This is a friendly and safe village which many travelers from all sectors enjoy visiting. It is too bad that irresponsible people can ruin, with a wave of a hand, what we have built with hard work, love and care," Hareb said.

Another resident of the village expressed shock at the report of the rapes, saying, "These kinds of crimes are shocking. We hear on the news about rapes all the time, and even if we cannot feel what the women who were attacked feel, this is just as terrible. Our village is a quiet place whose residents live in coexistence and friendship with all of its Israeli neighbors and I hope people don't hold it against us all."

Note that this is not an attack on Slave, but a plea for understanding.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Spanky
How long do we have to wait before they are proven wrong? And if this is really a problem we need to worry about shouldn't something have happened in the last thirty years?

Something has happened in the last thirty years. Global temperatures have continued to rise. That is what global warmin means. That some of the more drastic predicted possible results of that warming have no yet happened does not mean that there is nothing to be concerned about.

In a hundred years we will probably have found a way to take carbon out of the atmosphere.

Perhaps, but if we do not view global warming as a significant issue now, why would anyone be researching this?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
That means show the masses how to change their lives to reduce the emissions. The masses are struggling to pay rent this month. they can't buy "carbon credits." The whole concept is something invented to make rich people feel less hypocritical while they preach.

I'm not familiar with the "carbon credits" markets that are at issue here, but the idea of creating markets in the right to pollute has been around for a while, and has been implemented effectively. Once you create the market, those who invest in the cleaner technology then have an incentive to ensure the integrity and efficacy of the enforcement regime, which makes the whole scheme self-perpetuating. Creating financial incentives in this way to invest in cleaner technology can be effective, and is not a concept invented to make rich people feel less hypocritical.