Politics: A new beginning

[Hank Chinaski]

deleted duplicate

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by bilmore
A disturbing pattern of late - you get to say whatever you want, but if we respond, even more temperately, (honestly, I looked, and can't find that word in anything Bush said), we are calling you "traitors", or we're "stifling free speech", or we're just somehow killing off dissent. Isn't it hard to bill enough hours while carrying that huge cross?

I take it you don't see a qualitative difference. Okay - we disagree.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
You might as well run as the "Good Nutrition President."

oh, that's Dept. of Agriculture:

http://www.nutrition.gov/
I think you're referring to Bush's good health inititives:
[/QUOTE] This user-friendly nutrient database supports President Bush’s HealthierUS Initiative to improve overall health for Americans through regular physical activity, proper nutrition, preventive screenings and healthy lifestyle choices[/QUOTE]

http://www.healthierus.gov/

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
This user-friendly nutrient database supports President Bush’s HealthierUS Initiative to improve overall health for Americans through regular physical activity, proper nutrition, preventive screenings and healthy lifestyle choices

Seems to me that developing another website that people can sit and surf while eating their Cheetos is a poor way to cut down on the number of lardasses in the country.

(Of course, I suppose you do need to go where your market awaits.)

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
Tell me that Kennedy, Daschle, Kerry, Dean, and Gephardt are fringe, too, and I'll feel better about the whole thing.

I'm not going to believe that any of them called Condi Rice a whore, or your other colorful hyperbole, until you come up with something more than crack-and/or-Bushmills-addled ravings as support.

In this vein, your recent praise for Ann Coulter is kinda funny.

[Atticus Grinch]

The Pentagon has been saying for two years that repeated mobilizations were not affecting recruitment and retention of the reserves, which (it has become obvious to all) are a key factor in our ability to project military force overseas. Now, the Pentagon has annouced what rank-and-filers saw coming long ago: the Army Reserve is missing its retention goals due to activation fatigue. It missed its "career solider" retention goal by 9.3% --- that's looking only at the pool of talent that has already invested significant time in reserves, but is tired of the sacrifice asked by this Administration.

It seems the well of military folks' goodwill toward the Perpetual War on Terror Doctrine is running drier.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Bilmore has apparently been so scarred by his Minnesota experiences, post-2000, that he has jumpd down into the trenches with Ton Delay.

You missed the part of the Wellstone Memorial when they called Condi Rice a whore, but it was covered extensively in the conservative media.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

oops

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
I'm not going to believe that any of them called Condi Rice a whore, or your other colorful hyperbole, until you come up with something more than crack-and/or-Bushmills-addled ravings as support.

You are actually waiting for me to say that the "Rice is a whore" thing was hyperbole before you think any valid point was made?

No, no one who is not a fringie has made such a statement. It was hyperbole on my part.

Now, could you deal with the substance, please?

In this vein, your recent praise for Ann Coulter is kinda funny.

Funniest thing since dried rice. Completely over the top on the traitor thing, of course, and I don't know anyone who claims her as a spokeperson, but it's just been so long having to listen to crap from Franken, Moore, Striesand, Goldberg, and the like that it's like a breath of fresh air. Go read her newest diatribe - it's hilarious.

BTW, do you consider those people to be fringe, too? My perception is that the entire Dem party cheers when they call Bush a baby-killing moron.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
...
It seems the well of military folks' goodwill toward the Perpetual War on Terror Doctrine is running drier.

All I'm saying is that the article has it down pretty well. People just don't like the odds anymore, compared to the pay (or loss of pay in many cases) that accompanies repeated mobilizations. If people wanted to go active duty, they would have joined active duty.

At one point it was touted as a risk of an occasional 6 month or 1 year overseas deployment (see, e.g., 1991 mobilizations).

But when people are hearing about the 3rd mobilization in 4 years (one under Clinton, one immediately in response to 9/11, and one that can be tied to Iraq one way or another), they wonder where the rest of the flag wavers are.

If nothing else, somebody will have to start raising military salaries if they want to counter the effects of this.

That, and try and raise the permanent level of reserves/national guard forces by 50-100% so that particular units aren't left wondering why it seems like they are always getting mobilized.

Hello

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
You are actually waiting for me to say that the "Rice is a whore" thing was hyperbole before you think any valid point was made?

No, I was making my own rhetorical point.

Now, could you deal with the substance, please?

What is there to say, other than that the new Bush ad is comparable -- at most -- to things said by unnamed fringies, not Dem candidates.

Funniest thing since dried rice.

If you're setting the bar that low, we can certainly find common ground.

BTW, do you consider those people to be fringe, too? My perception is that the entire Dem party cheers when they call Bush a baby-killing moron.

I saw Franken speak not long ago, and I don't recall that being part of his material. But I don't follow the others you mentioned. Babs don't do it for me, and I've never been able to stand Moore. I'm not sure who Goldberg is.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by bilmore
Funniest thing since dried rice. Completely over the top on the traitor thing, of course, and I don't know anyone who claims her as a spokeperson, but it's just been so long having to listen to crap from Franken, Moore, Striesand, Goldberg, and the like that it's like a breath of fresh air. Go read her newest diatribe - it's hilarious.

BTW, do you consider those people to be fringe, too? My perception is that the entire Dem party cheers when they call Bush a baby-killing moron.

Do you even read what you write? This is rife with internal contradictions. We've had to listen to crap from Coulter and Limbaugh and Liddy and Lungren and North while the entire right cheered. So what?

I like Franken. I like Moore. I like Trudeau even more. I find them to be funny social critics, who will take potshots at Dem leaders, too. Entertainers are entertainers. Leaders are leaders. When the 'twain are confused for each other, bad things happen (see California). I wouldn't elect them to anything. I cheer when they needle Bush the way you cheered whenever a GOP wit needled Clinton. Back when that was the national sport, I didn't weep for the condition of democratic discourse until THEY FUCKING IMPEACHED HIM. You're showing an astonishing lack of self-awareness if you think what happens to Bush is somehow a deterioration of the discourse. It's just that you woke up this morning to find your ox being gored. If your feelings are hurt when GOP leaders are made to look silly or venial, grow some fucking skin, or elect less fallible leaders.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I cheer when they needle Bush the way you cheered whenever a GOP wit needled Clinton.

I was reading infirm Politics the other day, and it occured to me how depressing it must be to be a president (or ex) sitting at a computer with a hour to surf the internet.

Back before the net, there were wingnuts accusing the presidents of vile shit, but a president wouldn't likely see it. now if Bush (or Clinton) put in a google search "Poll who worse Bush Osama" W'd get at least one hit showing Osama as the better guy (Democratic underground, last week).

Do you think Cheney installs a filter on W's computer to keep him away from this kind of site? I know for a fact Hillary had a filter put of Bill's computer, but not sure if it extends to political hate.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I cheer when they needle Bush the way you cheered whenever a GOP wit needled Clinton.

Maybe this is our basic miscommunication. I never cheered that shit. I never went for the Hilary/Chelsea stuff. I never told cigar jokes. I hate it when it comes from either side. And, for you to characterize "he's a lying moron" with "needling" is humorous, given your new definition of "traitorous".

You're showing an astonishing lack of self-awareness if you think what happens to Bush is somehow a deterioration of the discourse.

You're showing a tremendous lack of self-respect by cheering for it. And, yes, I do think that the level, and tone, and general pervasiveness, has vastly soured. There were the rabid voices contra-Clinton, sometimes many, after Clinton sort of called in his own incomings by getting blown in the White House by a teenager, fer gawd's sakes. (It's like he had a contest amongst his staff, with the assignment of finding the one way to generate the most Leno jokes on one topic in history. Talk about self-destructive.) But now, there is one rabid voice contra-Bush, and it's your party. The whole damn party. Yeah, I see it as a deterioration of the discourse.

It's just that you woke up this morning to find your ox being gored. If your feelings are hurt when GOP leaders are made to look silly or venial, grow some fucking skin, or elect less fallible leaders.

I like your logic. You spend months making up stuff in support of the "he lied!" crap, and then blame your incivility on me by saying that I shouldn't have elected such a liar.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Do you think Cheney installs a filter on W's computer to keep him away from this kind of site?

I believe Bush has already admitted in response to questioning that he follows politics and international affairs only through daily briefings by his advisors. Which leaves, I think, the sports pages as the best way to get a message through.*

*Please note: This is not offered as evidence that Bush is a moron. If reading the entire daily paper was all that is required to become president, we'd be led by reclusive nutjobs from Elizabeth, NJ or my FIL. I love my FIL, but I think I'd vote for the guy from Elizabeth.