Keeping it civil instead of returning to our dark ways

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It'll be interesting. There are obviously a whole bunch of conservatives with very profound concerns about Bush's domestic and foreign policy who have been hoping that a Kerry victory would let them avoid an internal conflict. Now it's up to them. Can the adults in the GOP stage an intervention? In Congress, DeLay is maybe more of the problem than Bush, and I'm not optimistic that Republicans will do anything about him.

We'll never know, but it's an interesting question whether it's worse for the repubs to win or lose--because now the split will come while in power as opposed to while on the sidelines.

I noted with interest, though, during the corporate tax handout bill, that one of the deficit hawks, Susan Collins, said "fuck it, and give Bath Iron Works [and related military-industrial complexes] the money, and I'll vote yea"

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
We could just join the EU.

Umm, Kerry's plan to do that is the reason he lost.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by dtb
Facts are a most effective tool in shutting up the "no it isn't" corner, and its "Best Post Ever" award ceremony.

Best most recent post I've read ever.

TM

[Fugee]

Originally posted by dtb and Thurgreed
[various responses to Not Me

Is there a good reason why Not Me is not on your ignore list? It's like talking sense to the guy on the street corner wearing an aluminum foil hat to keep the government/aliens from reading his mind.

[cheval de frise]

Originally posted by dtb
Hmmmmn. How about redneck?

Hmmmnn. Why do you need to use disparaging names at all? As a shorthand code to the like-minded?

I expect I'll shortly come across your post where you make a similar point to Not It about how "welfare moms" is code for "urban, poor, black women" and similarly distasteful.

No disagreement here.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Say it. It feels good. Say it loud. Scream it from the hilltops.

"W got elected by manipulating a whole lotta White Trash!!!"

If the Dems had won and a Rep was screaming Kerry got elected by manipulating a whole lotta Black Trash, what would your response be? Is this talk acceptable to you because you are white slamming other whites? Well then would it be any less racist for Alan Keyes to say Obama won by manipulating Black Trash and no educated black would vote for Obama?

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield

"The sorta folks who'll tell you you're going to hell... Well, they're White Trash!!!"

Of course, no black fundamentalists christians would say that.


and so on and so on. Nice racist rant, sebby. Where's TM when you need him to scream racist? Oh wait, he only does that if someone says something bad about a black person.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Lieberman/Obama in '08. You saw it here first.

Would that be Opus # 451 or 452?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Bush believes he's divinely guided - do you think a man who couldn't admit making any mistakes in four years of leading the country is going to suddenly decide to listen to voices of reason?

I really don't think Bush believes he's divinely guided. I think he neither knows nor cares about policy, and makes snap decisions which he then sticks by. Those close to him know how to present issues to him to push his buttons. I don't even think Bush is all that religious (he hardly ever goes to church), though he certainly speaks that language well.

One of Bush's gifts as a politician is his ability to energize and speak to cultural conservatives without turning off moderates. Part of this is pitching his positions on "values" in a way that has popular appeal. I think he makes this look easier than it is. (Edwards also is good at this.) Whoever comes next for the GOP will have a harder time keeping that coalition together. McCain and Hagel, for example, couldn't do it -- they'd lose the cultural conservatives. Others like Ashcroft and Brownback would lose moderates.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Problem is they sort of lost that debate with the 16th amendment.

ETA:

A more relevant rank is per capita spending, as opposed to net return, because it separates out the sizable impact that the income tax has on the latter.

(table)

While there obviously some red states at the top, there are a fair number of blue states in the mix as well.

Your table seems to heavily support Ty's argument.

TM

[Gattigap]

To reiterate, Bush won, and it's better for all of us that it was a clear enough win that we're not all watching litigation right now. Still, I thought these statistics were interesting in suggesting the size of the mandate that one should draw from this election.

• COMPARISON OF SUCCESSFUL INCUMBENTS
  
  Margin of popular-vote victory:
  
  1936: Roosevelt -- 24%
  
  1940: Roosevelt -- 10%
  
  1944: Roosevelt -- 7.5%
  
  1956: Eisenhower -- 15.5%
  
  1964: Johnson -- 22%
  
  1972: Nixon -- 23%
  
  1984: Reagan -- 18%
  
  1996: Clinton -- 8%
  
  2004: Bush -- 3%
  
  
  
  Electoral College margin:
  
  1936: Roosevelt -- 523 - 8
  
  1940: Roosevelt -- 449 - 82
  
  1944: Roosevelt -- 432 - 9
  
  1956: Eisenhower -- 457 - 73
  
  1964: Johnson -- 486 - 52
  
  1972: Nixon -- 520 - 17
  
  1984: Reagan -- 525 - 13
  
  1996: Clinton -- 379 - 159
  
  2004: Bush -- 286 - 252, [estimated]

Anyone have a guess as to how Bush will interpret the results?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by dtb
Come on, Slave -- just as the "effete liberals" don't make the difference for dems, neither do the "rich and Big Oil" make the difference for reps. They're just too small a part of the respective parties to make the difference.

But you knew that.

Big Oil is cracker ass crackers with money.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Umm, Kerry's plan to do that is the reason he lost.

My plan doesn't involve the hillbilly states. You can fight the war. We'll take our money. You can have the churches. Jesus saves!

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
We'll never know, but it's an interesting question whether it's worse for the repubs to win or lose--because now the split will come while in power as opposed to while on the sidelines.

I noted with interest, though, during the corporate tax handout bill, that one of the deficit hawks, Susan Collins, said "fuck it, and give Bath Iron Works [and related military-industrial complexes] the money, and I'll vote yea"

The Bush budget deficits are going to become a major political issue. They haven't had much purchase, but now that Bush has become re-elected, a lot of people will start to worry about them.

Susan Collins is more like a deficit pigeon who gets to thinking she's a hawk because there haven't been any raptors in the neighborhood for a while.

[dtb]

Originally posted by cheval de frise
Hmmmnn. Why do you need to use disparaging names at all? As a shorthand code to the like-minded?

Hmmmmmn. Yup (shorthand), and nope (not really a code). Didn't you read the exchange between Sebby and me?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Your table seems to heavily support Ty's argument.

TM

Well, because there are a lot more red states. But I see Maryland, HI, Mass., Conn., RI, Maine, and Penn. all in the top 20.

(ETA: The left-hand column, which is per capita spending)