Fashion Board 2-3-04 to 3-5-04

[evenodds]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Why no jewelry? Aside from the Amish (whom I don'tmind because they tend to be pretty damn friendly and generally of the "live and let live" mindset), I've never known of any Jesus Freaks who decry jewelry.

What on Earth is the basis for an anti-jewelry stance?

"No adornment." Apparently, this doesn't apply to designer suits or dresses or fur coats, but I wear the only diamonds in the family.

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
There are only two good things that happen at a wedding - getting drunk and dancing. Eliminate them and there's no point.

Not to quibble here, but you forgot the related third good thing -- Hooking up with drunken bridesmaids.

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I'm no wasting my afternoon for any asshole rude enough to indirectly prostheletize to me. Have a nice day with Jesus, asshole... I'll catch up on some houswork that Saturday.

I'm just wondering, has anyone ever asked one of these folks to explain why Jesus changed water into wine at the Wedding at Cana, and if the Bible meant "grape juice" wouldn't it have just said so?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Not that I think e/o will actually take the advice to say "Have a nice day with Jesus, asshole," I have to say, e/o, that this seems like it might damage your relationship with your in-laws. Now, since they apparently don't drink or dance, perhaps they deserve to be shunned forevermore. But they are family . . . so you might want to think a bit on it.

Just a suggestion.

So what happens when you go out to dinner with your in laws? Are you not allowed to order a glass of wine?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by spookyfish

I'm just wondering, has anyone ever asked one of these folks to explain why Jesus changed water into wine at the Wedding at Cana, and if the Bible meant "grape juice" wouldn't it have just said so?

Talking to them about the holes in their logic/belief system is like trying to clap with one hand.

The more holes you poke, the more galvanized they become. Its like telling a teeanger he's wrong. Now, imagine instead of just being full of the natural teenage know-it-allness which abides with time, this teen believed his knowledge derived from a higher omniscient power. You'd have a real problem child on your hands. Now, imagine hundreds of these kids getting together regularly to reinforce amongst themselves the absolute correctnees of their beliiefs, and the absolute wrongness of everyone not in their group. Now you've got a real problem.

There are millions of these obnoxious teens all over the country, and a whole lot of them vote. And they're going to "save" you damnit... whether you want to be saved or not.

[evenodds]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
So what happens when you go out to dinner with your in laws? Are you not allowed to order a glass of wine?

I am a grown woman, so I am "allowed" to do what I choose.

Out of respect for the family, I do not drink in front of them (or order pork or shellfish).

I respect their beliefs, as well. I just believe different things than they do.

Edited to add: they are not evangelical, and no one has ever tried to convert me or save me. What's the big deal with respecting other people's beliefs?

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Why no jewelry? Aside from the Amish (whom I don'tmind because they tend to be pretty damn friendly and generally of the "live and let live" mindset), I've never known of any Jesus Freaks who decry jewelry.

Apropos of nothing, one of the most drunken wedding guests I've ever witnessed was an Amish guy.

Weird that.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by evenodds
I am a grown woman, so I am "allowed" to do what I choose.

Out of respect for the family, I do not drink in front of them (or order pork or shellfish).

I respect their beliefs, as well. I just believe different things than they do.

Edited to add: they are not evangelical, and no one has ever tried to convert me or save me. What's the big deal with respecting other people's beliefs?

Does the OM have drinks? Or do you drink alone with him?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by evenodds

Edited to add: they are not evangelical, and no one has ever tried to convert me or save me. What's the big deal with respecting other people's beliefs?

I've eaten shellfish at dinner with Orthodox Jewish friends. They didn't take offense. They just laughed at my obvious ignorance when I offered them a cherrystone clam. Nobody got offended - they just did their thing and I did mine. That's how its supposed to work.

Your "respect" is one sided. They should respect your belief that drinking alcohol is ok. Why do the ultra-religious get to inflict their views on the rest of us by taking unreasonable offense or being judgmental, yet we can't do it back to them? Seems pretty hypocritical on their part. They don't have to drink the wine, but they ought to bite their lips and act like grown ups when a grown woman from a different background has a drink.

This "respect" either goes both ways or it goes none.

[Fugee]

Originally posted by spookyfish
I'm just wondering, has anyone ever asked one of these folks to explain why Jesus changed water into wine at the Wedding at Cana, and if the Bible meant "grape juice" wouldn't it have just said so?

Most of my extended family does not drink for religious reasons (although for my mom it is more that her dad was an abusive alcoholic and ruined her childhood). I didn't start drinking until I was an adult and even now whether I have a drink or not isn't a big deal for me.

Anyway, when I was younger I questioned this with the multitude of wine references in the Bible and was told that "wine" back then didn't have the same alcoholic content as now and was more like slightly fermented grape juice. This didn't make sense to me because the Biblical prohibitions are not against drinking wine, merely on being drunk and it didn't seem to be possible to get drunk if it was only slightly fermented. I think it is a situation where people have set up a rule to make sure there is no chance of violating what is in the Bible -- if you don't drink at all, there is no chance you will get drunk. Kinda of like Jews who keep strict kosher have separate dishes for meat and dairy when the actual law was to not boil a kid in its mother's milk.

As you may recall, I love love love LOVE jewelry so I am glad I've never gone to a no jewelry kind of church.

[ThrashersFan]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Why no jewelry? Aside from the Amish (whom I don'tmind because they tend to be pretty damn friendly and generally of the "live and let live" mindset), I've never known of any Jesus Freaks who decry jewelry.

What on Earth is the basis for an anti-jewelry stance?

In the bible it states that woman are to be "unadorned" (ie not wear baubles). ( I Timothy 2:9-10 9. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; I Peter 3:3-4 3. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel)


There is also a passage about women keeping their yaps shut in church and allowing only their men to speak for them ("Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.")

I like this type of passage because my friend is a JW and I like to piss her off when she speaks of following the literal reading of the bible -- she tells me that the above-referenced passages do not apply (for whatever reason) so she can wear her diamonds and speak at the Hall.

**I am not religious. I know very little about the bible. I just like to be argumentative. Leave me alone.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I've eaten shellfish at dinner with Orthodox Jewish friends. They didn't take offense. They just laughed at my obvious ignorance when I offered them a cherrystone clam. Nobody got offended - they just did their thing and I did mine. That's how its supposed to work.

Your "respect" is one sided. They should respect your belief that drinking alcohol is ok. Why do the ultra-religious get to inflict their views on the rest of us by taking unreasonable offense or being judgmental, yet we can't do it back to them? Seems pretty hypocritical on their part. They don't have to drink the wine, but they ought to bite their lips and act like grown ups when a grown woman from a different background has a drink.

This "respect" either goes both ways or it goes none.

Exactly. So out of respect for E/O, the family should not not drink around E/O.

[ThrashersFan]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I've eaten shellfish at dinner with Orthodox Jewish friends. They didn't take offense. They just laughed at my obvious ignorance when I offered them a cherrystone clam. Nobody got offended - they just did their thing and I did mine. That's how its supposed to work.

Your "respect" is one sided. They should respect your belief that drinking alcohol is ok. Why do the ultra-religious get to inflict their views on the rest of us by taking unreasonable offense or being judgmental, yet we can't do it back to them? Seems pretty hypocritical on their part. They don't have to drink the wine, but they ought to bite their lips and act like grown ups when a grown woman from a different background has a drink.

This "respect" either goes both ways or it goes none.

Too true. This is why when I eat out with others and they fill their maws from platters laden with the carcasses of murdered animals and sea creatures I like to light up a smoke and order a couple more beers. Go ahead and eat that rotting corpse in front of me but don't you dare make a peep about my binge drinking or chain-smoking. Mutual respect has its benefits.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
There are only two good things that happen at a wedding - getting drunk and dancing. Eliminate them and there's no point. I'm no wasting my afternoon for any asshole rude enough to indirectly prostheletize to me.

Just as well. The prostheletizing might make it pretty hard to dance, even if dancing were permitted.



(Unless it was a call to alms. Badumbumching!)

[Fugee]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Your "respect" is one sided. They should respect your belief that drinking alcohol is ok. Why do the ultra-religious get to inflict their views on the rest of us by taking unreasonable offense or being judgmental, yet we can't do it back to them? Seems pretty hypocritical on their part. They don't have to drink the wine, but they ought to bite their lips and act like grown ups when a grown woman from a different background has a drink.

This "respect" either goes both ways or it goes none.

Your idea of respect is a little different from mine and EO's. My family respects that I drink and they don't. They've never once suggested that I need to stop drinking to be a Christian. In exchange, I respect them by not slapping them in the face with it.

You don't seem to respect the decision of others to not drink when you suggest that it is socially wrong for nondrinkers to throw a party (which is what a wedding reception is) at which alcohol is not served. Why? Doesn't the host have the right to set the menu, beverages included? Should an ardent vegetarian have to offer steak as one of the entrees at the reception? You as the invited guest have the right to decline the invitation to any party if you don't think it will be enjoyable. But I don't think you have the right to demand it be the kind of party you want it to be. That's not giving them respect.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by spookyfish
I'm just wondering, has anyone ever asked one of these folks to explain why Jesus changed water into wine at the Wedding at Cana, and if the Bible meant "grape juice" wouldn't it have just said so?

Not quite, but I've attempted other sorts of rational discourse with fundamentalists.

It's like whacking your head against a brick wall, without the pleasant drug-like daze.